January 19th, 2016 
AstroNerdBoy ユーキューホルダー! Manga Review
UQ Holder Chapter 109
SPOILER Summary/Synopsis:
Karin is fretting over the very real possibility that she might confess her love for Touta. She tries to convince herself that she hates him, but ends up thinking about his good points. Touta interrupts her thoughts to spell out all of the things he loves about her, including that the real Karin is the one he saw smiling in the slums. Touta’s words have great impact on her, but he ends his monologue by remarking on her huge chest.
Karin flees, realizing she nearly succumbed to Touta. However, when Touta gives chase, she transforms her clothing (thanks to the dimension they are in) to battle him, so Touta does the same and takes her on. Three hours and forty minutes later, Touta defeats her by vaporizing her clothing. She angrily tells him that his goal of saving the children and the world is impossible. She tells him that a very long time ago, she had a teacher she adored more than Yukihime, but she betrayed him and hanged herself. However, God would not allow her to die as punishment for turning against Him. As such, she sees her immortality as a curse.
Touta is happy to have heard what was on Karin’s mind and tells her he still loves her. He now believes he loves her because she’s walked the same path as Yukihime, which is why he believes Karin loves Yukihime. He gives her his jacket and asks her pointed questions on whether she’s really giving up. He sternly tells her to not give up, saying that their immortality is not a curse, but an advantage. Touta vows that if this guy created immortality as a curse, which caused people like Kirie and Santa so much pain, then he’ll beat up the guy that cursed Karin.
Karin finds her heart pounding and realizes she can’t find her feelings any more. Just before she can confess her feelings to him, Yukihime appears as the illusion space disappears to announce their quarantine period is up. Further, she reveals that the chocolate Karin ate did not have the truth potion in it. This sends Karin into a tailspin because it means she was not under the influence when she was about to confess. She vows not to accept this and attacks Touta.
Thoughts/Review:
Well now, well now. I’m glad we got more info on Karin, but I’m not so sure I like the implication here.
The chapter left me with the strong feeling that Karin was a disciple of Jesus Christ. One cannot help but notice the little cross symbolism in one frame. Her story parallels that of Judas Iscariot in that Judas betrays Christ, then kills himself over the betrayal. If Akamatsu-sensei tries to say that Karin is Judas, but that history recorded her as male, that’s not going to work for me at all. Yes, I know there’s Saber, who was a female whom history recorded as male, but that’s a different situation.
For starters, Judas was an evil person. He never loved Christ, but he did love carrying the money and being someone important. He skimmed money for his own purposes. Does that sound like Karin in the slightest? Absolutely not.
Now, if Akamatsu-sensei wants to have things so that Karin is tied to Christ, I don’t have a problem with that per se. It might be interesting to have Karin be someone who followed Christ, but who assisted Judas in his betrayal of Christ, who then attempted to kill herself in a similar manner.
Touta vowing to go up against God makes me seriously want him to get his arse handed to him by God with a lesson attached. I think Touta is right in that their immortality isn’t a curse in a normal sense, but that depends on what they do with it. They can do things that others cannot, and Touta sees it in an almost Biblical manner — to whom much is given, much is expected. But challenging God is too much, which is why I want God to smack him down. (If only Akamatsu-sensei understood the Bible, we’d get this.)
Still, we got a glimpse of Karin’s history and with the girls falling in line, Touta is establishing a true battle harem. This chapter proves that Touta has strong feelings for Karin. That doesn’t lessen his feeling for Eva, Kirie, nor Eva. It does show how this series is one where you have the harem ending (though I’d want Eva to end up with Negi in the end, but Touta could have the rest).
While contrived, the fact that Karin’s chocolate didn’t have a truth drug says more about her feelings for Touta than if she had. She was very close to confessing on a couple of occasions as I saw it. She really has done the Motoko arc here (Love Hina), only this time, Akamatsu-sensei has a chance to allow his Motoko character to have a real love, even if it is part of a (battle) harem. I just hope we don’t get the constant, “I don’t accept this” stuff, but instead get Karin accepting things and moving forward.
In the end, UQ Holder chapter 109 in an interesting chapter that would appear to conclude the Karin in the Harem arc. So what next? Shinobu? Mizore? I would love to learn more about Shinobu, and I’d LOVE for Touta to be taken by Mizore to see Ayaka and Chachamaru. We’ll see what happens.
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Because we have been in the harem arc for so long now, it just occured to me that over the 119 chapters, UQ Holder probably doesn’t really pass the Bechdel Test as a whole. Given the genre, I suppose it’s not unreasonable that this is the case, but even in Negime, I could recall times in Negima where the girls were talking about what they want out of their life/future that is independent of Negi, but it hasn’t seem to be the case here.
I had to look up “Bechdel Test” to see what that was about. 😆 Kuroumaru was gender-neutral, so Eva was the only woman for a while (other than Shinobu in chapter 2). We’ve only just recently had an influx of female characters, so it may not pass that test.
Thought i was a huge fan of the harem theme in Love Hina and Negima i cannot get warm with the harem theme here for some reason. Dont get me wrong i love the interactions, but seriously? Touta would rank in my male ‘harem lead’ of the Ken series even below Kotaro form Negima and THAT says much !
I love Karin in this chapter, Ken pulled out her character truly wunderfull but for me it got ruined with Toutas replies ‘what’ he loves about her aswell what he would do for her.
As Karin said, he has no archievments as such, at least for the moment, i dont realy wanna see him scoring someone like Karin.
Which brings me to the point again which im realy disliking at UQH atm… that Touta gets everything handed to him while someone like Negi had to work for it. (even the girls XD )
BTW a question to all of you: Did you guys ever wunder why Fate is leasind Ala Alba now? o_O makes someone wunder if someone like Mana or Chachamaru, who were part/alied with AA in Negima are still part of it.
Well, Fate’s still alive I guess. Mana was always more of a lone wolf, and Chacha seems to be Ayaka’s caretaker. Fate is the really the only one pragmatic enough to use Ala Alaba’s name for whatever insanity he’s pursuing right now, so why not capitalize on that.
As for why UQ Holders harem is boring, that’s because its character frankly are. You see, in Negima, you at least always had dynamic between the classmates before anyone else, giving us a healthy amount of interaction that existed beyond everything to do with Negi. Here, Touta is a black hole that sucks up anything vaguely interesting, and everything in the series has to happen in the context of him. Its poor writing, and no matter how attatched you might get to the characters, its impossible to ignore and otherwise wastes a huge amount of opportunity at expanding these characters relationships.
For some reason, this line made me laugh a lot. 😆
That’s because both Love Hina and Negima were set up as harem titles. UQ Holder was not. Indeed, Touta was shown as uninterested in girls for a while.
That has always been my problem with Touta, but lately, his other irritating aspects have not been playing up, so I’ve mellowed out somewhat.
Once the MotB absconded with Negi to parts unknown, I’m guessing Fate said he was in charge of Ala Alba and everyone quit for whatever reasons.
Wow, this chapter was so much better than the spoilers made me think.
Really not sure how I feel about the Jesus stuff. Although I suppose it was hinted at when Chao called Karin the Saint of Steel and she said her immortality is a blessing. As long as her backstory doesn’t turn into a religious rant I think I’ll be fine. Or like that movie where Jesus is just an immortal man who’s lived until modern times.
Maybe Karin’s tattoo is symbolic of her being the 13th apostle.
Moving on to the harem stuff, Touta’s “I loved you ever since I saw that smile” line was pretty smooth. I liked how Akamatsu brought back that moment from the Slums arc, it was the first time Touta(and we) saw her stoic facade crack.
I was kinda bothered by Karin joining the harem but this chapter really made it work.
There were only twelve apostles. After Judas killed himself, the remaining apostles elected Matthias to be the replacement. We never heard from him again. Paul was shown to be God’s replacement for Judas, at least as I read the Scriptures.
Now, there were lots of disciples, but that’s another item.
I agree.
I know there are 12(I’m an Irish Catholic, that story was drilled into me).
I was just suggesting that Karin might be supposed to a 13th apostle that was lost to history or a secret member or something.
I don’t want her to just be Judas. I want them to be separate.
Ah. Understood. I’m not a fan of the 13th apostle though. I am with you in that I do not want her to be Judas. I’m totally cool with her being one of the women who followed Christ (assuming that’s whom Akamatsu-sensei was referring to).
Wait. I agree with the images that Karin was following a great teacher and it appears to be Jesus by also showing a cross or a crucifixion. But Jesus had more followers that followed after the 13 disciples. Jesus was well accepted when he entered Jerusalem, and it was called Palm Sunday. She could have been one of those and not necessarily Judas. During Jesus’s trial by Herod and Pontius Pilate the crowd condemned Jesus, and all the disciples and all others that followed Jesus fled for fear of their lives, and even Peter denied Christ three times. Its not shown, but she could have also been Mary Magdalene or another female who followed Jesus.
Karin could have been swept up with the mob mentality against Jesus led by the Jewish Sanhedrin and Caiaphas (Jewish high priest) during the trials, and was part of denying of who Jesus was too.
She at some point realized who Jesus really was, and since she betrayed Jesus, took her own life to make amends to that denial. She takes responsibility of betrayed and “turned against God”. She does hang herself on a tree, as did Judas, but consider, hanging using a tree wasn’t that much uncommon suicide for that time too. However she was given the gift of eternal life or immortality and also her hidden ‘light’ power she used to defeat Xiao. Maybe her power was given to for her willingness to kill herself to correct her error.
Karin brain is fried and toast. She’s like Star Trek Original series – The Changling – babbling ‘non-sequitur’ since there is no logic or anything that makes sense to what just happened and her feelings. Yes, we can count on super Tōta whisper the right things in her ear. Very touching. Hopefully Karin can find a way to keep her clothes on, or why she didn’t just whip up a another uniform like she did earlier. oh yeah, her brain is gone.
It appears that love conquers all situations. Maybe that is a real theme so far.
There were only twelve apostles. After Judas died, the remaining eleven elected Matthias to join them as an official apostle. However, as I read the scriptures, God chose Paul to be that replacement.
You are right in that Christ had thousands of disciples. But of them, only twelve were made apostles.
Mary Magdalene gets ruled out ’cause she doesn’t betray Christ and kill herself. But I’d be OK if she were some other woman who followed Christ and as you said, got caught up in the mob mentality, realized her mistake, tried to kill herself, but then was chosen of God for a specific purpose.
Or something like that. 😉
(My own theory has been women are drawn to powerful men for purposes of procreation, and since Touta has massive powers that are awakening, the women are responding accordingly.)
my bad. Yes, thank you for correcting my error – its 12 apostles.
No problem. 🙂
Also … gotta check the earlier chapters, but I remember the two chocolates outside of the box eaten, not one inside, and the other outside …
Looking back at the previous two chapters, it seems that Karin has eaten a chocolate outside of the box, while Touta could have eaten any of them (there are two eaten chocolates and one not eaten outside of the box).
I need to look at that too as I was thinking the same thing you did.
Leaving aside the question of whether Karin is supposed to be one of Jesus’ disciples – possibly a gender swapped Judas – this goes a long way towards explaining Karin’s conversation with Chao that one fight where it was revealed she had holy powers. The one where she called her powers love rather than a curse.
She’s beloved and as such blessed that she does not age, cannot die, and injuries instantly are fixed without a mark. She views it as a curse as it means she could not die like she felt she deserved, and must live with her betrayal.
Yeah, that seems to sum it up pretty well.
Warning, the following may be controversial:
[spoiler]For starters, Judas was an evil person. He never loved Christ, but he did love carrying the money and being someone important. He skimmed money for his own purposes. Does that sound like Karin in the slightest? Absolutely not.
This is debatable. Judas stealing money only appears in the Gospel of John, which only appears in what is suspected to be the last of the four Gospels. While in Mark, which was the earliest, money is never mentioned.
The exact reason he betrayed Jesus is a big mystery. There’s indication even in the Gospels it might have been planned, and let’s not even get into the controversial Gospel of Judas.
Of course, hanging appears in the Gospel of Matthew, where Judas gives up the money in guilt.
Other reasons for the betrayal exist as well, but are less compelling for one reason or another.
This all relies on the assumption that the canon Gospels are accurate. They were all made decades afterwards, plenty of time for facts to be distorted or explanations to be made up.[/spoiler]
Now, onto a slightly less explosive topic:
Touta vowing to go up against God makes me seriously want him to get his arse handed to him by God with a lesson attached. I think Touta is right in that their immortality isn’t a curse in a normal sense, but that depends on what they do with it. They can do things that others cannot, and Touta sees it in an almost Biblical manner — to whom much is given, much is expected. But challenging God is too much, which is why I want God to smack him down. (If only Akamatsu-sensei understood the Bible, we’d get this.)
I would like to point out the numerous times series, from all around the world, that feature God being fought, beaten and killed. Getting annoyed by it bow seems weird to me. :p
If you’ve read the Mahou Sensei Negima manga and watched the second version of the anime, SHAFT’s Negima!?, that’s great – but if not, I hope it’ll fit almost as well if you substitute just about any story told in two radically different adaptations.
Explanatory rant enclosed:
[spoiler]When I watched the first version of the anime, XEBEC’s Negima!, the story seemed okay, a bit cheesy… but then the last few episodes knocked my socks off. Later I read the manga, and found out Negima!‘s ending was actually a Gecko Ending – but it was easy for me to forgive, because to me it was consistent with the manga characters (not to mention it packed a heck of an emotional wallop).
Then I watched Negima!?. I was a little bit wary at a few suspicious signs from the outset. Very different art style… a few too many “Where did that come from?” breaks in the story to tell a dumb joke not in the manga… a few too many over-the-top parodies… increasing derailment of the characters…
Then someone apparently bought the cheap stuff for their weekly staff meeting. (I dunno, maybe their usual dealer got busted by the police.) They pretty much stopped pretending they were telling Akamatsu-sensei’s story any more. They loaded it with all of the above, threw his style out and substituted their own, wrote their own story, and derailed the characters completely. They might as well have started calling it SHAFTima.
(If you’re wondering, I wasn’t familiar with SHAFT at that stage of the game. If I had known back then that they do this to every story they can (probably unless they’re explicitly forbidden from doing so), I’d have tossed the discs out the window and called it a day.)[/spoiler]
I’d have been a lot happier if SHAFT had just called their anime SHAFTima from the outset. They could have called their two main characters Igen and Anusa, with no harm done. But they didn’t. The only clue they gave was one punctuation mark in the title, and if that’s all they were going to do they should have named it !Negima.
Now I’m finally back to the actual point, and my apologies that it took so long. This is just how I feel about a story and characters I liked, and it was enough to inspire an angry rant and an enduring grudge. No ambiguity whatsoever, it’s fiction (even if there are a number of elements I can relate to).
But imagine that SHAFT had done this with the life of your friend Joe Blow, presenting it as if Joe were exactly the opposite of who you know him to be. Most of us would be livid.
Now imagine that SHAFT did this with someone you not only believe is a real person… you worship them as a literal deity. That’s the kind of thing that makes psychopaths pick up assault rifles and dynamite vests, or open up torture chambers and burn people at the stake.
~~~~~
At least as far as I understand, most religions view “their” God as real and everyone else’s as imaginary / fictional. If anything, they relish seeing “other gods” and their believers taken down a peg. To outsiders, it might seem like that if most religions believe in a higher power, and they have more in common with each other than they do with the nonreligious, they should be able to get along and view “their” God as one face of a common higher power who shows different faces to different people.
All I can say is that I wish anyone who pursues the endeavor of finding common ground and trying to get along (or at least not invent nasty ways to kill each other) the very best of luck. They’ll need it.
Excellent post, but the main thrust, which I admit I didn’t exactly explain properly, was that even people who know and believe in the Bible will not necessarily make their stories Bible/Faith compatible.
Saying that if Akamatsu understood the Bible, it’d different or feature something, is presumptuous on two levels:
1) What indication is there that Akamatsu doesn’t understand the Bible? We’ve all seen the amount of research that goes into his stuff.
2) Assuming that reading/understanding the Bible will make Akamatsu not write something, or do something different. Akamatsu is a story-teller, he’ll do what he thinks is best for the story.
The above is absolutely true. I was primarily responding to the last two sentences of your post (the ones I quoted), because they reminded me of one of my favorite grumbles that Hollywood regularly violates: “If you’re going to change so many elements that a story becomes more like a fanfic by someone who only heard the gist of the story thirdhand, that’s fine. But for Pete’s sake, don’t falsely lure people in by using the same name and pretending it’s the same story.”
Remember all the Friends clones? If not, I can’t blame you – the little bits I saw in passing have been mostly blocked out of my head. But at least they had the decency to not call any of them Friends Moves To LA and give the characters the same names. (At least not that I remember.)
Absolutely. One of my favorite authors, Guy Gavriel Kay, has done a number of “fictional histories” about time periods in history that struck his fancy, based on conceits like “What if forced eradication of a culture were actually a literal curse?” (Tigana) or “What if you boiled down the key events to a few characters, and changed a few elements to cast the theme in sharp relief and make it easier to understand?” (The Sarantine Mosaic).
In the latter, clear allusions are made to Christianity (Jad) as part of the history of 6th century Byzantium, but Kay is mostly able to skim past without getting into any of the sacred beliefs. Alixana, however, is a clear allusion to the empress Theodora. She’s one of the main cast of characters, so Kay doesn’t have the luxury of skimming past her – but fortunately he doesn’t need it, because to my knowledge no religion ever formed around Theodora. If it had, Kay might be in hiding with Salman Rushdie because he didn’t depict her exactly as portrayed in the holy book of Theodorism.
All human subscribe to some level of “sacred” beliefs. At the lower levels, if someone explicitly disagrees with one of them, we might assume they just don’t know better. This isn’t a good thing per se, but it’s fortunate by comparison with the mid-to-upper levels where we’ll assume that even a slight difference in nuance must be motivated by malice (and respond in kind).
Well, it is true that Judas was chose by Christ to do what he was always going to do.
I’ve missed those series where they go up against God (not some deity). ^_^;
I could be wrong, but I think there’s a fundamental misunderstanding in play that I tried to address in my response to the same comment.
I don’t think BFldyq meant “The Christian God”, I think he/she meant “a God”.
~~~~~
If the above doesn’t quite make sense, the thoughts that preceded it might help.
(Cliff-notes version of the TLDR prologue: It severely ticked me off when SHAFT tossed Akamatsu-sensei’s story out the window while making Negima!?. If they’d called it SHAFTima featuring Igen, Anusa, etc?… meh, whatever. But instead they co-opted the identities of characters and a story I care about, and just that was enough to inspire an angry rant and an enduring grudge. And that’s just for a story I know is fictional. No real people harmed except Sensei.)
I wish I had closed the above differently, so here’s v2: “Twisting a story that someone holds sacred can infuriate even the best people to the point of losing their $#!~. Psychopaths may be inspired to pick up assault rifles and dynamite vests, or open up torture chambers and burn people at the stake.”
~~~~~
The lines between “fictional”, “real”, and “sacred” are pretty blurry, along with “truth”. Our brains of extremely-sophisticated meat are far more powerful – and fallible – than any inorganic computer. We’re capable of emotions, “gut feelings”, etc based on analyzing trillions of permutations of subconscious data… in the blink of an eye. But they can easily be “wrong”, especially if we’ve been “hacked” by propaganda, “misprogrammed” by dysfunctional modeling (especially as kids), or “short-circuited” by faulty neurotransmitter metabolism.
Which is why a story that’s “fictional” to a critic may feel somewhat “real” to me because I care about the characters, or even “sacred” to someone whose life was turned around by the lessons it taught them. And data that’s “sacred” to a lifelong expert on a phenomenon may be “real” to someone who reads a convincing research paper, or “fictional” to someone hacked by propaganda.
~~~~~
I guess the conclusion is that I’m not quite as liberal and pro-freedom-of-speech as I thought I was. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, and someone losing their $#!~ because they didn’t like a cartoon of Allah buggering Satan is not excusable. But if you kick a hornet’s nest by writing a story that could be perceived as making Judas a misunderstood good guy / victim of circumstance*… don’t be too surprised when someone loses their $#!~, you know?
(* – For the record, I don’t think Akamatsu-sensei intends for his story to do that. I absolutely refuse to believe that the mind which gave us the first half of Mahou Sensei Negima could have degenerated far enough to think such a thing would have good results, UQ Holder or not.)
As others have already implied, I see no reason why Akamatsu has to stick to the actual “sources” for who all supposedly followed Jesus around. It would probable make more sense for him anyway to treat ‘his’ fictional Jesus as one that only shares some traits with the Bible’s fictional Jesus. (Not saying there wasn’t a historical Jesus, but the Bible’s portrayal certainly has way more of a fantasy story than an actual historical account.) Until Akamatsu indicates that he intends to stick way closer to the source material than is common in manga author’s typically wild-and-woolly appropriation of cultural materials I am saving my indignation for the much more egregious lack of character development in this series!
Akamatsu-sensei can create a new, fictitious character to have followed Christ and I’m OK with that. I just don’t want it to be a re-imaging of Judas.
I half-wonder whether Sensei heard (or came up with) an especially-corrupted version of the Wandering Jew. Goodness knows it’s evolved a lot over the centuries as it weaves in and out of different mythos.
I think the first time I was exposed to this character (and with Adam’s supposed first wife, Lilith) was from Neon Genesis Evangelion.
Well with Karin=Judas we have two options.
The canon Biblical Judas who was a traitorous scum
And the non-canon Book of Judas.
Perhaps the second option is possible here. I’m not that well-versed but in the Judas’ version he was not a traitor by choice but by necessity. He did what had to be done, he had to betray Jesus in order to get the whole Crucification thing rolling.
Of course there can also be the option that Karin WAS a bad person, or at least somewhat bad person back then. But later she regretted her actions and wanted to make amends. She had more than 2000 years to change so I can’t see how she Couldn’t have been a bad person back then. Perhaps the Apostles had it wrong? Maybe they miswrote something. Perhaps Karin loved Jesus like she loves Yukihime now. She got jealous, angry she is fully capable of that from what we have seen of her anger at Touta and her possessiveness of Yukihime. She betrayed Jesus out of love rather than greed.
I do believe that Judas was chosen by Christ specifically because he would betray Christ in the end.
Regardless, I don’t want Karin to be Judas remade. Karin can be some fictitious follower of Christ who helps Judas betray Christ and I’d be cool with that. But not Judas himself.
Well, I’m incredibly disturbed by recent events. I had even called Touta the Messiah as a deeply cynical joke. http://anime.astronerdboy.com/2015/07/uq-holder-chapter-87-spoiler-info.html
More concerning for me was that I’ve been making up background details for some of the Holders, EG Jinbei owed his life to the first Fujiwara and served them for 5 century’s, but when Touta’s last name was told to Jinbei he would pledged service to Touta so he could end his 8 century ronin status.
Another one I came up with was for Al. My story for him was that he was aizening everything and would betray the Springfield dynasty, his reason for doing so was because he was a tree that was made into a powerful tome, made from a seedling of yggdrasil. The tree he was made from was the tree that judas hung himself and his blood/essence corrupted
seedling! Al. Insighting his Traitorous actions, he therefore would start the Martian civil war so he could create an extinction level event for humanity and had been ensuring that any ‘heroes’ that would emerge he could handle, EG nagi and Asuna’s lineages.
I had originally thought that the person that Karin followed before was Al with a different hair style. OR BETTER YET AL IS/WAS JESUS!
I have to be honest I’m burned out on Christianity in shounen, it only seems to be really offensive/used as a gimmick. Like D.Grey Man where the noah are just magical espada or Blue exorcist where it’s just used as template because shinto is incoherent.
Naruto’s use; was of ill taste to say the least. The shinjuu being the tree in the garden of Eden and Kaguya being eve that ate it’s fruit to gain power, but somehow gave birth to one half of Sage Christ.
Making Kaguya solely reasonable for all the conflict in the naruto verse for 3000 years+, once again poor treatment of female characters by Kishimoto, as well as their being multiple Shinjuu’s according to boruto the movie.
So did Akamatsu already retcon Karin?! First European C.C. Exepy, now a middle eastern follower of Christ.
Jesus, who’s next! Santa is actually from the north pole and is the reincarnation of Santa Clause or Kire’s real name is Chisame!
Well, that anime adaption up to the end of the tournament arc will cut all this harem nonsense out. If that ever happens.
Regarding karin I have a theory about it I posted here, I’m not going to talk about it more than that, we will see in the future if it is false or not. I’ll just say one thing.
Stop shouting “Retcon !!!” when someting you thought true proves false, then there was NO affirming element clearly. Akamatsu has NEVER said that Karin had become immortal in the fifteenth century, all he said was that Chao Xinkai has heard of a legend on it from the 15th century, was different. You commit the same mistake that was comise backstory with Eva. It has NEVER been said beyond doubt that she was a noble-girl.
All that to say that if we learn later that Karin is not Jesus Christ, but simply following a holy-man belonging to the Christian religion, or even an angel who took possession of a human (like Supernatural) or, Similarly, as in my theory Mage disguised Beginnings, and it was not cursed by God, I’ll fertilizer you not to cry retcon, while for the moment “karin = Judas ‘n’ Only a Theory. It is possible that it be but for now there is no proof. Thank you. ^^
As for Tota saying that he goes “fighting God” is also possible that he speaks the literal sense, it’s true (after all in Highschool DXD God is dead and the world abd the Magic are functioning normally and in Supernatural angels believed he was dead ( even if later we saw that was not the case, but in both cases his survival seems no necessary for the maintenance of life, nor for the maintenance of Magic and the supernatural) although I prefer anyway that will not be the case, but we’ll see. But personally I think Tota speaks mostly in a metaphorical sense, the same as in another manga hero would say “I’ll kick ass destiny” in the meaning “I will build my own future.”
Again we will see. ^^
Concerning Al, I guess you do Refference to this passage: (http://www.mangareader.net/mahou-sensei-negima/331/8)
Personally I do not think averruncus say that Al is actually a humanized book. Was probably an insult to say that was an old man who loves books so much that it seems that he is one of them. But I think he is actually a human immortalized or a high-level spirit. I say this in case Akamatsu reveals that fact and you’d try, again to cry retcon without reason. Do not base your theories on such lean elements and even less about simple sentences thrown into the action by enemy for insult another character. You will lose less your time. ^^
For the rest, which would be a Albireo bad-guy … there you will REALLY look too far I think my friends. ^^
@Seimei I had always question when karin become immortal, but Karin’s initial backstory seemed like a parallel to eva meeting touta and guiding Karin/Touta.
You know, if you break down Santa into the katakana サンタ (sa-n-ta), a quick switch makes it サタン (sa-ta-n). (^_~)
Arg, sorry about not closing the blockquote tag after “Clause”… no preview function and I forgot to double-check after hitting Post Comment. (◞‸ლ)
Fixed. ^_^
Thank you (^_^)
You’re welcome.
Har! 😀
Although Japan LOVES Christmas and think cross necklaces are cool, they really don’t know Christianity. It is just something believed outside of Japan. So it doesn’t surprise me that Akamatsu-sensei wouldn’t know.
Thinking about all this, I’ve not had a problem with manga/anime series using the “Church” as some kind of powerful, magical organization. That’s because there are a number of Christian denominations, so “Church” just becomes a fictitious one, based in Catholicism. However, the Karin/Judas apparent ties crossed a line with me. I’m hoping Karin just turns out to be one of the women who followed Christ. I could live with that.
@Astronerdboy I believe the reason that it crosses the line for you and everyone else is up in arms about it. Is because we longer have any faith in Sensei’s writing capabilities. If any other manga-ka did this, people would be wary but intrigued.
Well, we know Akamatsu-sensei is capable of much better writing. I really think that Akamatsu-sensei just wants to write casual and not be bound to massive story arcs. He might have gotten away with that had UQH been divorced from the rest of his universe. Oh well.
Let’s see people still saying Touta isn’t a Gary Stu once he kicks God’s arse. Oh, who do I fool, they’ll still say it regardless.
” It does show how this series is one where you have the harem ending”
I still think Akamatsu will try to tie this to the Negima ending and the Evangeline who went off alone to travel universes is Yukihime. If not, well, this is the Akamatsu series where a harem ending was less necessary or fitting. At least the others were harems from the start. Here, occasional teasing aside, the actual harem content only started 100 chapters in.
If Yukihime is that Eva, then she wouldn’t be in the Touta harem as I see it. However, Eva aside, I can see Akamatsu-sensei ending this with Touta and his battle harem.
Deep and plot moving chapter to say for sure. Karin being disciple of Jesus Christ is something is a stretch i think. Though it would be distort what we’ve heard of Karin being from France, Eve running into her. I would think more of a Joan of Arc situation, but Christ makes her even older than Eve is.
Touta’s moment of “I’m thoughtful thinking compassionate guy” in this chapter was impressive. That must been some candy, giving him boost to his IQ. Not saying he dumb, but he not struck me as being as thoughtful most of the time.
I have to say I have issue with Karin confessing to him (against her will due to drugs). I thought be nice for not have Harem forming, but look like Akamatsu-sensei is building a deeper foundation for this harem. If that’s what he driving his plot towards.
I was more impressed with Negi, when he admitted he had eyes for ONE person. Whoever that was. Touta not gone different road of relationships, using “love” i think in different way since i get the impression he still a child in sense of relationships.
You might be amused by this Order of the Stick comic, especially if you’ve played D&D before. If not and you’re curious, brief explanation below:
[spoiler]Background: Belkar, the bald one, is a rather twisted little soul. He has an extremely dark sense of humor, and will do almost anything for a laugh – including hurting or killing the party’s enemies even when it can be avoided. But he’s not a homicidal maniac… he’s more of a connoisseur.
Belkar and Vaarsuvius (the party wizard, in red) are arguing about game mechanics in the first two rows. In the third row, V casts a spell to increase B’s wisdom so he can use healing scrolls, but it sharply changes his outlook.[/spoiler]
Maybe they can change the running joke? Instead of Kuroumaru’s gender, the joke can be that Touta the Mighty sometimes accidentally eats candy that raises his intelligence. And unlike K’s gender, this joke can be used in a pretty wide variety of circumstances. (^_^)
This is part of Akamatsu-sensei’s attempts to redeem the character so that Touta isn’t so irritating.
What we learned is that she hasn’t taken the drug, thus it wasn’t against her will at all. That’s what made it more powerful to me. She assumed it was the drug as a means of explaining the feelings within her that she was facing for the first time.
That’s true.
I have a theory:
I had not thought, but one hand that karin would Judas and God would a bad-guy would “VERY dangerous or politically incorrect” for someone as prudant that Aka on this stuff ( I recall that we are talking about the Man who refuse to explicitly mention Isui Mikao, the founder of Aikido, like the master in martial-arts of Eva when she arrived in Japan. If he refused to involve a historical figure , imagine a semi-historical or biblical character like Judas as Jesus !. He would take the risk of offending the believers of an existing and living religion, the first religion in the World, ina quasi-direct way, something I do not think he would be ready or would want to do, and especially not in his ultimate and final manga, where else from some people here that I will not name, he refused to take the slightest risk of screenwriting in their opinion. In most, that after all, his whole Universe is built on the combination of several cultures and spiritualities without offending one and being as respectful as he can, like a Hiroyuki Takei, with Shaman-King.
On the other hand, this is also in part inconsistent with the biblical story (forget the fact that Judas is a woman, she’s too young for be Judas. Even in Fate stay night, the series that is expert in the feminization of characters legendary, the characters have had about a credible age to match their “historicale version”. Judas if I’m not mistaken has in gospels the thirties, I think that, even if we do not respect fully the age of the character of origin, (after all, in theory it is already feminized ^^) but from pass 30 to 15 years that means glue.)
Then the name “Karin isht Orte” Although it looks like Iscariot but that does not stick perfectly. Iscariot in Greek (the language of the Gospels) expressed “Iskariotes”, which is far from the full name of karin, and again, I’m not counting the spaces between words.
One could certainly invoked that she changed her name in the meantime but then why keep a name that evokes Judas in a coded way? She is called “Karin Yuuki” now, she could radically change her name from the beginning, as with Eva in “Yukihime” So it is likely that “isht Karin Orte” is her real full name and did so nothing if not indeed the biblical Judas.
Then the relationship with Karin with her prophet. She loved him and admired him. Judas half despised Jesus, and was joined him by interest and was obsessed by money, literally opposite with Karin, besides I do not see karin in a “Golum-mode” rummaging in a chest glistening eyes of greed saying “myyyy preeeciouuus ” lol
One might say that Judas was defamed and he really loved Christ. Yes, is what the Gnostics thought. In the apocryphal gospel of Judas, Jesus REQUEST Judas to betray him to the prophecies being fulfilled. What he does. Following this the other jealous and bitter apostles of the arrest of Christ kill Judas and were danged his body from a tree. In both cases Karin story does not agree with the biblical story or with the Gnostic tradition. It is presented as someone who loved his master but was betrayed him and killed herself in despair. A mixt of the two versions
Finally, the “XIII” in Roman numerals on her back. I may nitpick but if Karin was Judas, she would have marked with a symbol in Hebrew or, in the rigor in Greek, not a glif Roman. The Romans numerals and latin alphabet weren’t used in the Christian symbolism only several centuries later. If God was the source of his curse of Karin,, he would not have written in Latin, at least … not in the 1st century. For someone as picky about symbols that Akamatsu, such details is very importent I think.
All this leads me to think that… Sensei troll us by putting us the image of Judas in the nose when in fact it is not him.
My theory is this: Karin was a member of a sect in unknown time between the year 33 and the fifteenth century (the date of that meeting with Eva) who worshiped a false Christ (there were many enlightened posing as Jesus Christ reincarnated or his direct messanger to antiquity and middle-ages), the sect recrated the system of “12 apostles”. Except that the false prophet would actually be the Mage of the Beginning. Karin eventually denounced his master to the Church that she admires because she suspected him of heresy (not necessarily because he was a mage (the church of Akamatsuvers is more tolerant about Magic than the Church of the real-world) but especially a black magician). the “prophet” is killed. As the mage has predicted her betrayal,, Karin, feeling unworthy and requests remorse, she hangs herself, judging herself “as Judas”. Then activates the ultimate spell as the maker has left her, the White of MarS (the Cancel magic would only one aspect of that energy.) Taking this for a divine curse, Karin felt even more guilty. With the “XIII” The symbol of Judas appears on her back. Her journey begins.
What do you think of this Astro-san? I think that it fits quite well and not only allow Tota to keep his word in a literal sense without going in a frenzy as literally beaten up in Christ but in addition it would bind to karin more linked with the group and give her a personal reason for to fight the Maker, other than her fangirlisme to Eva^^.
The only thing that not stick, that Chao has explicitly recognized this light as the Christ light besides the immortality of karin is clearly of divine essence, which would seem strange seen that even M-E that is rank A is less powerfull. So it can not be the white of Mars.
What you might think is that the real Christ wanted to save Karin at her unjustified and tragic suicide by offering the “Nimbus” and resurrecting her in an immortal. But that does not explain what “XIII” the “shameful mark” on his back.
Another possible explanation is that even the treachery of Karin was part of the plan that the Maker through, in a sinister ritual involving a parody of the life of Christ because he wanted to capture a sample of the demiurgic light of Christ in a human, while Karin is his guinea pig.
This is my theorie and I hope that it will the good answer to this enigma.^^
Good observation on the roman scripture vs hebrew, it would be a more likely conclusion that the man Karin followed was the mage of the beginning or it could be the prophet muhammad, if Akamatsu really wants to have karin to of followed a real life religious figure.
But D.Grey man tried this with the Noah, however it fall flat on it’s face and the Noah’s power held no coherence to it and their set-up was just a gimmick, that had all of humanity wiped out by the ‘The Great Flood’ 3000 years ago as fact.
The series would latter be canceled by weekly shounen Jump moved to a monthly young jump(?) 3 years latter, canceled again then placed in the quarterly magazine jump square crown (a play on Allen’s Crown Clown) with D.Grey Man’s return promating it along with blood blockade battlefront.
The story elements in D.Grey Man in it’s relunch involving biblical scripture make no sense.
UQ Holder’s story is simply being mystified by Akamatsu not given any details, but the new approch he seems to be taking now is something to weary of.
D.Gray-man is to me as credible historically that is Bleach lol (which does not prevent me from loving these two manga also a new animated for D Gray-man is expected for this year, oh yeah ! ^^)
I remind you that we are talking about a manga where the “demons” are machines “alien-like created by a mad scientist-living species weird since the time of the flood. It has NOTHING compares to Negima / UQ who is a world seeking to combine history, mythological Refference fantaisy and as smoothly as possible. ^^
Muhammed would be a possibility that would justify the curse of God, the presence of Roman numerals on the back of Karin and avoid the “massacre” of the new testamant lol.
But we would remain the problem of “grudge against God”, although as I say, Tota may well (and probably this is the case) spoke metaphorically when he speaks of “making pay to God. ”
But I still prefer my own theory about Life-Maker that makes a ritual to “parodying life of Jesus Christ” in order to “capture” a fragment of the “nimbus” (the light of Christ) in the body of a human, namely karin.
That would solve everything, Karin would be, really cursed with a divine power but God would not be responsible and Tota explode (literally in this case) the Maker, he was planning to do this aniway. ^ ^
@Seimei Mostly true, bleach is an inverse of the heaven vs hell holy war that doesn’t know if it’s Jewish or catholic.
D. Grey Man on the other hand most more than skin deep references to biblical scripture.
Alien’s Crown Clown is referred to as the Clown that accompanied St. Agustín.
Also [spoiler]the Earl isn’t actually a scientist, he’s the evil half of THE Adam that somehow is cursed, blew his face off and forgot that neah was his twin. As well as Allen being Neah, the Earl was actually Mana D. Campbell. Which makes no sense since Mana was turned into an akuma by the Earl and then cursed Allen. Theirs some metaphor of him spitting himself after he ate Neah’s body, to create Mana. But the other Noah know that Mana was a clown. Also that neah killed all the other Noah expect ‘Earl’ Mana and road[/spoiler]
Point is, so far anytime shounen does religion it goes wrong or is poorly executed.
I know that the Earl is not strictly scientific, in fact it is even mentioned several times that he is a wizard. And I also know the backstory of Earl, you do apprands me anything ^^.
What I mean is that even if it is more rooted in a contemporary-fantasy world qye Bleach (which uses the modern world as a pretext) but it brings a lot more than a Bleach Negima / UQ Holder or Shaman-King, as its univer does not fit with the biblical mythology. Unlike universe as Negima / UQ or Shaman-King, who as I say come perfectly to use different mythologies and the mélengers so cohérantes while respecting their specificities.
I agreements that religion is not an easy subject to deal with. Except when a universe together many religions and that they serve as a pretext for the development of fantaisy Universe and bases for technical fights, magic powers or beasts and creatures. This without any are favored or denigrated on an ideological level. What is the way to run the akamatsuvers and shaman-king or, To aru majutsu no Index and even, the Type-Moon Univers or the Light-Novel “Mondaji-Tachi”.
in this cases, it works generally very well., in my opinion at least. And despite what we learned in the current UQ chapter because as I say, I think we’re excited too fast, we lack information both about the past of Karin and her true identity or about what it really means the declaration of Tota, (but for that I referrals you to my previous answer ^^).
D.Gray-man was never canceled. It was put on hold because the author had/has massiv health issues. Hoshino Katsura was in hospital several times. The movement to different magazines was to reduce the workload for that poor woman.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-11-16/hoshino-puts-d-gray-man-manga-on-hold-due-to-health
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-07-03/d-gray-man-manga-relaunches-in-new-jump-square-crown-magazine/.90043
As a matter of fact, a new anime is coming out this year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lt3W6cgTa4
@DerGilga I know the circumstances, I do not believe it was entirely due to sickness. claymore was moved from weekly to monthly (jump square) in 2006 after 5 years, it got an anime in 2007 and nothing came of it.
Nor does it mitigate all the story issues D.Grey Man has created since it returned.
It’s anime returning, is most likely due to 3 factors 1. The animation Studio is TMS and isn’t solely dependant on publisher IP’s, as well as that the studio has other steady revenue streams.
2. Their is colossal hype around monthly manga’s and the their sales numbers/readership interest, EG Black Butler and Shingeki; and just like with D. Grey Man TMS is jumping on the newest cash cow, it just happened to be that the shounen cash cow and the new monthly cash cow or ‘trend’ is D. Grey Man.
3. Weekly shounen jump will always provide capital to adapt their series for an anime, TMS doing D. Grey Man, fosters some good will between Shueisha and TMS. So when they finish their 2 Cour, and D. Grey Man fails. TMS has secured another project (potentially)
Which is sensible given the that anime studio manglobe folded with a million dollars in debt.
I would suspect that that Bones and Perriot are in a similar situation.
Most probably, the reason for Bones to do hero academy (my suspicion for Bones candidacy is that their targeting the North American audience, which love bones and madhouse), also trying to repeat fullmetal alchemist and Perriot keeping naruto running for as long as they have.
Claymore was moved from monthly to weekly back to monthly, because the magazine Monthly Shōnen Jump was actually canceled and they wanted the manga to continue in some form.
The most confusion part to me is, what have D.Gray-man story issues to do with its puplication history?
It is an interesting theory.
As I’ve stated elsewhere, I just hope Karin isn’t supposed to be Judas. I can accept her being one of the women who followed Christ. I can also accept that she helped Judas in betraying Christ. It is a shame we won’t get more Karin backstory for years (most likely).
interesting, as of september 2015 UQ holder has sold over million copies with 6 six volumes
I did think it passed the million mark around that time, but the estimated sales data was sketchy, so I went with the lowest denominator.
Love hina 10 million
Negima 20 million
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1081641921882563&id=461895657190529
Youtube link to the NHK program
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uO5y0rlxYU
Thanks for the information! then, Could it have an anime with those sales?
@magine Truthfully, if akamatsu had 10 chapters a volume which would mean having 10 volumes vs 7, then yes. As it stands Akamatsu doesn’t put out more than 3-4 volumes. So Kodansha wouldn’t make enough money from their investment, however if he was monthly; in which the minimum page count is 120/3 chapters. Akamatsu would have a fair shot.
Thanks for replying 🙂
Thanks for the info.
We are assuming Karin is Judas Iscariot. Its a guess, but I’m not convinced.
But what do we know or shown about Karin?
The play with her name with the words of “isht Orte” Using a online translator it means ‘not places’ in what I am assuming is german, but I’ve tried the phonetics and I’m sorry, I can’t hear Iscariot and more ‘ish*t-ort’ or ‘ish*t-short-te’. Why a german name too? Then change to a Japanese family name of Yuuki? why not some other country if she is European?
“XIII” or 13 in Roman numbers tattoo. If she cannot be marked or cut, so the tattoo had to be placed on her before her ‘gift’ was given. Why and what it means we don’t know. We can assume, but its not shown how she got it. So we assume she was branded when she was still a mortal too, when it happened we don’t know, it could have been done around that time, but its not clear. She didn’t die when she tried to hang herself, so did she get the power then, or did she have it earlier, but didn’t realize it till she tried to kill herself.
Crucifixion was a common practice in roman times as a very public form of execution of people supposed to have been found guilty of heinous crimes, including killing those who are educated people or teachers or anyone that went against the gov or religious groups. It also was more serious social taboo if the condemned was Jewish, and death on a ‘tree’ is very much a issue, which the cross at time represented because it was made from wood. Sorta like being buried with the feet in the air is actually offensive in some religions.
Karin also gave the ‘sign of the cross’ as was correctly pointed out to me, so she’s a christian and a believer in Christ, but what sect wasn’t determined… possibly Roman catholic since its commonly used by them, or orthodox catholic, and again not defined in the manga.
We know that Karin has a ‘divine’ given power of light or something dealing with purity. Being immortal, we have no definite date, other than rough estimates, and traveling around the Mediterranean is possible to go from the south of France to the Middle East and back.
The manga didn’t as yet say it was Jesus, but a great teacher. We can assume, and again imply but its still a guess till its stated.
I think Tōta doesn’t know about Karin’s past, and is only comparing her life to Eva’s. So he thinks karin is of similar circumstance where someone did something to her, and not realizing her power is more on a divine level or from God when he tells her about getting back at who did something to her. It was more comforting for Karin, to realize that someone does care about her, when she assumes no one does care for her.
I thought it was pure opposites with two young immortal women – Eva/Yukihime with a very dark and evil past, and Karin with a pure (so far) past and some form of power dealing with light and love. Its like a matching pair that compliments each other’s opposite, and no wonder Karin is very attracted to Eva
Silly thinking on my part. I’m wondering if Akamatsu may have some coaching on the female side – as in a female advisor?
This is getting really picky but…
Something was bothering me, so I re-read the chapter.
Reading is right to left. If so, then it shows Karin starting to say “Long ago. Long, Long ago”, then it shows Tōta face in the next frame.
This is where I got confused. The next panel is a crucifixion of a cross (possibly two crosses) on a hill first, as the next middle frame saying “I had a teacher whom I adored even more than Yukihime-sama”
The next frame or farthest left frame, shows Karin following a man in the foreground with Karin saying “He was a great man, but in the end,”
So… as a alternative theory, could this mean this is after a crucifixion (of Christ maybe?) and not before, so it could be a disciple of Christ, that Karin was following or someone else, Peter maybe? Maybe one of the other disciples, or even Paul/Saul of Tarsus, which makes that at least 60-70 yrs after Christ’s crucifixion. Paul preached to the Gentiles, while many of the original disciples preached to the Jews, and Paul founded several churches in Europe and Asia Minor. Paul and other disciples were martyred too, where Karin may have betrayed one of them.
Just another idea…
Well, that could be possible. Akamatsu-sensei gives us so little information.
After some research I may have found an explanation for the past Karin. This theory is based on the fact that there would be “two Judas” in the Gospels. Indeed even the canonical books of the New testamant contradict about the death of Judas (here it is not a question of Gnosticism and “twin of Christ” as in my last theory).
The story of Mathiew said although Judas took remorse after the death of Jesus, hangs himself.
However in the Acts of the Apostles (Chapter 1, I do not recall me of the verses, I think was 14-18), Peter said that Judas, without remorse, purchased a field with his money that he earned by selling Jesus Christ (note that in Matthew, it restores again the money to the Pharisees, he is therefore contradictory) and he dies by falling head first on the floor, Peter adds that even has spilled his guts on the ground was whether the fall was violante.
My theory is this. Akamatsu could later explain that there had “two traitors”, literally. Judas Iscariot, who died of a fall and never regretted his treachery, and Karin who was deceived by Judas, and deeply regretted hier treachery, hanged herself. St. Mathiew would simply merged the two characters into one in the gospels of Akamatsuvers.
But that still does not explain the Roman numerals on the back of Karin, instead of Greek, or Hebrew numbers, or the similarity of her name with “Iscariot”. Neither the fact that we see the cross at the beginning of the flashback and not at the end. Until we have more information so I would continue to focus on my first assumption, that Karin is not a direct disciple of Christ but a member of an Christian sects after the death of Jesus or even, according to Sanchi, was the disciple of one of the apostles.
However, ultimately, I do not thine life-maker is the mentor of Karin, let alone the “true identity of Jesus.” Indeed following the fiery discourses of Tota, Karin notes that it has the same determination and humanist fervor of his mentor. I know the life-maker could have easily pretend to be humanist, the better to impersonate Jesus Christ and deceive his follower like a true “Antichrist”l. But it’s not like him, I think, he is manipulative yes, but not in this register. His speciality has more political manipulation or honeyed words “snake-like” inflamed and passionate humanist harangues about universal love, I think. So I thought that karin mentor was really the one she described.
For cons, the life-maker may have played a role in the fall of the master of Karin. I do not know the reason about this feeling, but imagine the mage from the beginning, the greatest dark wizards, helping to bring down Jesus Chrsit, the largest Religious leader of all time or, one of his apostles and heirs I find this, an interesting idea. ^^
However, I still think the discour of Tota about “to punch the face of God” (in the sense of it “teach him a lesson” and not to destroy him, as I had thought before I read the French version, which helped me to understand some dialogue) it a rétorique effect or a metaphor to say that he will fight against the Destiny. And when even would actually literal. Tota also said that he will spend eternity if necessary, and I do not think that the story of UQ will will last 10,000 years and 70 volumes. So I think we will stop after defeating life-maker and perhaps Shinso vampires, is all for the official manga. ^^
But suddenly it would be interresting fanfics ideas. For example, 500 years after UQ Holder, a group of heroes who seek to prevent Tota (the antagonniste) to defeat God to try to take his place. ^^ My imagination is bubbling, hehehehe. ^^ I love the idea of hero of yesterday becoming the enemies of tomorrows, even in the distant future. Was why having the neo ala-alba of Fate opponents for UQ Holder at the begining of the manga did not bother me. ^^
Hard to say.
Anyway, reading your post, I suddenly thought, “How come her tattoo doesn’t show up any more?”
My friend Kiba had a very interesting theory that I want to share with you:
“Karin could really have the” White of Mars”, it would continue to make a parallel with Eva and at this stage I do not think you can say there really a contradiction as we do not know what exactly its magic.
You look at the end of Negima, with Asuna when using the royal magic, she is well covered with a white aura with his clothing and his sword that changes color too. And given the description: “a magic of creation and destruction” in addition to being one the lifemaker uses, you might as well give it the name of “divine magic.” Let’s say it would be just the view and the name that people on Earth and especially the religious, given to white magic of Mars. As is natural for the inhabitants of the magical world to call it “the royal magic of Ostia.” In short it is still too early to rule out such a possibility. ”
I added only one thing. If I find that the White intérressant Mars is actually the power of God (the life-maker would have succeeded in getting it imperfectly) I do NOT think that the power of Karin can be strictly speaking the Royal Magic, BUT another power coming from the SAME SOURCE.
Thus the life-maker would have done the same thing that he did to Eva Karin, but using Withe divine energy, rather than the demonic black energy.
Sanchi: Yes I also noticed that we saw the cross at the BEGINNING of the flashback, just before the picture with Karin and her teacher. I would even go further and say that we can think that this cross was the thing that Karin and his teacher look at the following image and are trains to pray before it. Your theory that say that mentor Karin would be one of apostle, or even St. Peter himself is excellent.
This is a third possibility is quite plausible.
We know that Peter was crucified like Jesus but upside down (at least according to the Catholic tradition), if we follow this logic of Peter imitating Jesus, and Karin having imitating Judas in betraying Peter and in hanged herself seems logical. Similarly whatsoever St. Peter who has cursed her (het was not a stretch, he was one of the apostles most … “passionates” to the point that Christ himself often reprimend him for this angry side of him.
No-counted there are many popular tales where St. Peter cursed someone like that. The best known being that of Jack O’Lantern, where St. Peter condemns Jack who deceived Satan and led a life of debauchery unworthy of Paradise to wander on earth until the Last Judgment. So, to imagine himself condemn Karin to the immortality using the sacred magic (Withe of Mars, the Divine Magic) power that would give him by the Christ (probably after the Pentecost, because before that, Pierre does not perform any miracles from the New Testament, it is only after the event that it does, as the other apostles) it would not surprise me.
Besides that would fit even more with the declaration of Karin “He was a great proffesseur and a great man.”. In a world of historico-héroic-fantaisy or to see and to fight deities, demons and monsters and to pratice badass magic and epic martial-arts, is the normality, do not call Jesus Christ differently from simply “great man” seems somewhat strange.
Certainly she would not be called “Son of God” even if her teacher was really Jesus, because it would have too soon unveil her full backstory, something Akamatsu probably wants to bring in a trickle. But she would anyway have used a stronger term like “a sage among the sages” or “a man filled with light.” Instead, she just say “a great man”. The possibility that her teacher, was one of the Apostles, particularly St-Peter is very likely.
One might even think that the name “Isht Karin Orte”, both different and similar to the name of Judas as we have just noted, you and me Sanchi, could be part of the divine curse imposed by the apostle. A symbolic name with a mystical function to remind her what path she took and the weight of her curse.
And at least if Tota spoke literally, fighting a Saint (the equivalent of a pagan deity, for a Christian, at least in terms of heroic-fantaisy), is already a little more reasonable than confronting God himself lol. This of course, assuming Tota was not speaking metaphorically, although this hypothesis of the metaphorically speach, still remains my main hypothesis for for the moment, as I have said many times here.
@Seimei The problem with Touta’s metaphorical speech, is that Akamatsu canonised a shinto deity (Atamaru/Amaterasu) as the lifemakers (a God’s) child. That could’ve been hundreds of years old by the time she became the 1st Queen of Ostia; 1600 years ago.
Which would strongly imply other such deity’s as being real. To a certain extent.
But of course that all the deities potentially exist in akamatsuvers, I agreements. I simply say that Tota gives the impression that he will defied God did not mean he actually would, at least probably not in the official manga (see the last paragraph of my most recent comment hehehehe! ^^).
By cons I disagree with you when you say Amateru (not “Atamaru”) is actually the goddess Amaterasu Shinto. For me there are two distinct entities. The life-maker has just named his daughter inspired by the name of this goddess (there has difference between “Amateru” and “Amaterasu”, one syllable certainly, but a difference anyway.)
So if it is entirely possible that the mythological gods exist (even if unlikely) Amateru is not the goddess Amaterasu as me.
Moreover Amateru became Queen 2600 years ago, just after birth-the-Magicus Mundus, not 1600 years ago.
ISht KARIn OrTe?
I see – if you put Karin’s name in the middle of that phrase. I see it how it sounds now and its kinda close to Iscariot.
I looked up Yuuki — it translates to courage, brave, valor, bold, which fits Karin also.
While I enjoys the series somewhat, I’m really ready to get out of the harem arc and get back to the plot. It seems like we are going around in circles while he tries to figure out what he wants these characters to do. By this point in Negima we were already half way through the Martial Arts/School Festival arc and so much had already happened in just those chapters alone. I can understand trying to explain these characters backstories and things like that but it seems very heavy handed at times and feels force feed and not as natural as it was in Negima. Granted I cant compare Apples to Oranges but the story telling skills is so different from the two.
With Negima, Akamatsu-sensei was more about following a plot. With UQ Holder, it is more about random stories without worrying too much about the main plot.