March 8th, 2010 
AstroNerdBoy As most everyone following anime knows by now, FUNimation licensed the series Dance in the Vampire Bund, then shortly afterward announced the unthinkable — they will be editing the series not only for streaming and other distribution methods, but also for the DVD (and Blu-ray if they do it) release. So, assuming FUNimation doesn’t change its mind, they can no longer claim to be the company that never of their on volition edits the DVD release of their licenses.
I have always been opposed to edits of ANY kind in either manga or anime releases in the U.S. My thought has always been that if an R1 company feels the need to edit a manga or anime title, then why license it at all? I don’t care if these edits have been cleared with the creator or copyright holder because convincing them is a pretty easy thing from what I can see. Heck, the Japanese have forced edits on American companies because they feel that doing so will result in a Pokemon-type popularity explosion (Shin-chan, Case Closed). It will not. This is not the 90’s. We are not stupid.
To the question on whether or not FUNimation has the right to make edits to Dance in the Vampire Bund, the answer is “yes.” Like it or not, as the licensor to distribute this anime series in the R1 DVD region, FUNimation has the right to make any edits they have properly cleared with the Japanese copyright holder. This has been done and so the best way to voice your displeasure with this decision is to simply vote with your wallet and not buy the series.
That said, what would prompt FUNimation to license a title that they then felt the need to edit?
Unfortunately, we are not going to know this answer. There is fan speculation that FUNimation had to license Dance in the Vampire Bund as part of a package deal to get something even bigger, then discovered after the fact that they might be treading into territories that could possibly lead to major outcries at best and legal troubles at worst. As a business, FUNimation is going to put the best positive reason on why they licensed the series they now have to edit.
Dance in the Vampire Bund is a complex and dark drama cited by press and fans as one of the best anime series out of Japan this season. Its strong story is what brought the series to our attention and why we are bringing it to the U.S.
Many fans who care enough to speak about this anime seem to disagree and find this statement from FUNimation to be nothing more than spin (to put it politely). However, I do note that there are several fansub groups working on the anime and there’s no doubt that even if FUNimation attempts to squash them all, the series will be completely fansubbed in light of this editing news.
Could FUNimation’s decision to edit Dance in the Vampire Bund be the result of the Handley case?
In my mind, this is certainly a strong possibility. I noted recently that the Handley case caused Sasuga Japanese Bookstore to pull all of their Negima! manga off the shelves due to the ecchi content there (Barbie Doll nudity of junior high school girls; some mild sexually suggestive materials at times, especially with the shinso vampire character Evangeline, who is trapped in a young girl’s body as well; other traditional shounen fanservice). Sasuga has since returned those books to their shelves after reaching the decision that if Del Rey could sell the English version of Negima! without problem, then Sasuga should be able to sell the Japanese version.
As a Christian, Negima! pushes the line for me but hasn’t crossed it, though it would for some folks who might even call it obscene. (That’s why I would caution those who applaud these edits on the grounds of obscenity or any other grounds to be careful because the next edit might be on a title you like and would think should not be edited. ) From what I’ve read about Dance in the Vampire Bund, this anime would be over the line for me. As a Christian, I would not watch this but even if I weren’t a Christian, I wouldn’t be interested in seeing a young girl in sexually provocative situations even knowing she’s been around for a few generations. However, as a Christian, I would not presume to tell you what you should or should not watch because it is none of my business. If you like loli girls, as long as you don’t touch the real thing or harm someone else, I really don’t care what you do in the privacy of your own home.
Therein lies the larger problem — people in power who feel that things they find inappropriate should be kept from the public for the public’s own good. There’s a term for this folks — “progressivism,” sometimes known as the “nanny state.” Bear with me a moment as I explain this a bit.
Progressives see what they determine to be a problem and decide to fix the problem no matter what to change society for what they feel is the best. Enter the progressives pass laws that they claim will resolve the issue for the good or the people. If the problem is a behavior or health problem, the laws passed generally tend to be taxes on said behavior. This is always done for the good of the population, who are obviously too stupid to make the “right” decisions. The so-called “sin taxes” are a prime example of these kinds of progressive punishments of “bad” behaviors. Today, we see sugars and fast food being added to the list of “sins” that need to be taxed, all in the name of the public good. Remember, you are too stupid to make your own decisions in these matters.
The other method of progressive change is to pass criminal laws on other “unacceptable” behaviors. On January 16, 1920, the Eighteen Amendment was added to the U.S. constitution which made the sale, manufacture, and transportation of alcohol for consumption illegal in the U.S. Why was this done? For left-wing progressives, it was the issue of alcoholism and domestic violence against women. (source) For right-wing progressives, it was the issue of morality (source) and the mistaken notion that consuming alcohol is a sin. With such a coalition, it is no wonder that “Prohibition” passed the rigorous amendment process to the constitution with ease.
The bottom line you need to know about the progressive movement is that your freedom is less important than what the progressive deems is the public good. So under the banner of health care, the environment, protecting children, education, or morality, progressives work hard to get their agenda and their laws passed and the population to just bend over and take it.
This leads me back to the Dance in the Vampire Bund issue and the Handley case. It was progressives who decided that something drawn on a piece of paper or animated should be considered obscene and thus laws were passed to make what they determined to be obscene to be illegal.
At this point, I will say that the government has the right to protect children from those who would sexually exploit them and indeed MUST do this. That’s why it is not a progressive law to outlaw child pornography. Manga and doujinshi depicting drawings of kids engaged in sex is not child pornography. It is sick, depraved, etc., but it is not the business of the federal government to determine what you as a consumer should or should not read. Constitutionally, that is for you to decide. That’s why you hear progressives complain about the Constitution because if you read the Bill of Rights, it is a means of protecting the populace from the Federal Government and those who would attempt to control the people’s lives. Progressives want desperately to have the power to control people’s lives.
So, “we the people” have been slowly allowing our liberties as citizens to be eroded over the years and this goes back over 100-years. We allow “Big Brother” to decide what is and is not good for us to eat, drink, read, watch, play (oh, those violent video games), etc. in the name of the public good. I’ve been guilty of this as well in my life because I bought the arguments to control our lives that are always couched in the cloak of health care, the environment, public safety, education, morality, etc. Who can oppose giving up your freedom in the name of a “good cause?”
When it comes to protecting us from ourselves no matter what “good cause,” we all should stand up for our rights and freedoms. After all, the end of the progressive road leads to tyranny and either a theocracy such as Iran or Saudi Arabia or it leads to communism such as North Korea, China, Cuba, etc. Under either government system (most of which embrace “democracy” — remember the U.S. is a constitutional republic, not a democracy), the population are enslaved to the ruling elite and are not allowed to do anything the state does not approve of.
Whether FUNimation’s decision to edit the Dance in the Vampire Bund was in part due to the Handley case or not, one thing that is clear to me is that their decision appears to be motivated by the fear of what might happen to them should they release this anime unedited on DVD. To quote FUNimation’s official statement,
…after viewing the unedited as well as the Japanese broadcast edit of the series Dance in the Vampire Bund, we have determined the series contains controversial elements which, when taken out of context, could be objectionable to some audiences.
With this in mind and with approval of the licensor, we will edit select scenes from the series in streaming and home entertainment release. These are scenes which are inappropriate for U.S. viewing and are not essential to the storyline.
Score another victory for the Big Brother progressives and their goal to keep us from what is inappropriate for U.S. viewing, to say nothing of their getting a major corporation bow to the progressive wishes.
AstroNerdBoy’s Note: I used the term “edit” over “censor” because when a government passes a law and enforces it to cause a person or company to edit a work of art, it is censorship (ie: pornographic materials in Japan have to have censorship marks on the genitalia by law). When a person or company does the identical change to a work of art of their own volition without the rule of law to enforce it, it is an edit and not censorship.
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She kinda looks like the vampire from BlazBlue.
Evangeline’s LE cover is one of the few cases in which I feel that Negima crossed the line. I already feel embarrassed to read Love Hina in public with some of the bikini covers, but 10 year old frontal nudity is a little bit over the top to me.
Very interesting… keep us informed.
Are you friggin’ serious? How can you possibly blame this on “progressives” when it’s almost invariably religious nuts who are on the war path against anything that doesn’t fit their narrow-minded definition of morality. Yes, this is a boneheaded move by FUNimation, but the rest of this paranoid clamoring is something I never expected to see at this blog. I really hope you’re just trolling with this.
I find your political analysis of the problem to be completely without merit. In fact, it is conservatives that are the largest voices against free speech – ones that want to ban the display of nudity in museums and the like. They are the ones who went up in arms over a “wardrobe malfunction” at the Super Bowl. They are the ones who push for censorship at ever turn of that which they deem objectionable.
Progressives, on the other hand, are big into the first amendment. The ACLU, for instance, defends the rights of KKK members to demonstrate, no matter how offensive the message. It is Democrats who have opposed constitutional bans on the burning of the American Flag because of Free Speech.
And these are but a few such examples. I could provide plenty more on both sides showing just how wrong you are, but in the interest of space I will not.
So, no. You are wrong, and a few minutes of research would clearly show this. Further, trying to score political points either way, particularly when done so erroneously, only hurts the point you are trying to convey.
There are right-wing progressives and left-wing progressives. If you guys understood the progressive movement, you’d understand what I’m talking about.
The misnomer here is the assumption that progressives are simply Democrats. Many Republicans who call themselves “conservative” are in fact progressives. “Religious nuts” are right-wing progressives.
Just something I picked up reading the history of the progressive movement. ^_~
While I find the ACLU annoying, I wouldn’t call them progressives.
Prohibition and censorship are most definitely conservative causes, not progressive ones. Also, despite being politically astute, it really is beyond me what you mean by ‘right wing progressives.’ There is right wing populism, but no one calls those people ‘progressive.’
But yeah, sure, censoring anime goes right along with trying to regulate cancer-causing pollutants and stop environmental destruction, or advocating single-payer healthcare instead of having people die on the street. Thanks for the incoherent rant.
This has got to be a stunt, because you can’t be that clueless. How on earth do you figure that conservative bible-thumpers are actually progressives? Progress means moving forward and those people hate the very idea of that. Please don’t take this personally, but you seem to have your wires crossed somewhere to come up with this reasoning.
Excellent job, AstroNerdBoy. Thanks again for bringing up these important points, someone had to. People need to open their eyes instead of dismissing this because they’ve been lulled into complacency by the liberal media.
I hope you don’t mind if I link to the brief discussion prior to this article, so people don’t miss it: here it is
I just find it hilarious that they licensed one of the worst shows this season.
Still, I have mixed feelings. I find them editing them completely wrong whether they have the right to or not, as it taints the original, and the nudity in this series, beyond the theme song, isn’t titillating. Especially as the art is ugly.
On the other hand, I’ve seen someone go from lolicon to real child porn, to molestation and underage sex, so…I don’t know if it’s such a bad idea to try to limit exposure to this.
My thoughts: I think it would be best if you stuck to reviewing anime, because you clearly don’t have a handle on even basic political terminology. I took a look at your other blog and saw you praising Glenn Beck there, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
The progressive has been around for a long time and even had its own political party. Theodore Roosevelt formed the first progressive party, known as the Bull Moose Party. On their own, they didn’t get too far and merged back into the Democrat and Republican parties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_%28United_States%29
Well, interesting. The point of my article was to get thought going. I purposefully left out political parties and I do find it interesting that people assumed I was referring to Democrats when I was not, nor was I try to score political points. I wanted to bring a different approach to the topic to see what fans would say.
I think that many people who call themselves “progressive” are in fact more libertarian than they realize. There’s some test online that people can take which labels their actual political views. I’d always thought myself conservative but the answers I gave the test came back libertarian, which made sense once I thought about it. ^_^
You fail as a troll because your nutty political views make you a joke instead.
Seems some are forgetting such things as “hate speech” campus speech codes, radio “fairness doctrines”, the attempted re-definition of rape, anti-bullying rules, the D.C City administrator who was fired for telling his department chiefs not to be niggardly in their budget projections. Huck Finn being banned because of the name of the only decent adult character in it.
No, sorry folks, the left embraces censorship as much if not more so than the right, despite the propaganda and myths.
Progressives, on the other hand, are big into the first amendment.
Except in things political, which, if opposed they try to shut down. And which is worse? Not wanting one’s tax dollars to fund “Piss Christ” or shutting down debate with P.C. and ad naseum charges of racism?
Nice to see our education system is teaching kids today what progressives are. Ooops. My mistake. They aren’t.
Wow, a lot of dismissive comments. Not what I was expecting for the “people in the right”. If you look at a typical logic lecture, it always boils down to who becomes dismissive first, and that person is the one that loses the argument.
It’s kind of bad really; immediate dismissal because of a differing viewpoint sounds extremely similar to a certain organization that I’m sure you hate.
Your statements make sense to me. I’m kind of face palming at all of the backlash because your terminology.
To everyone else out there:
Conservatives are those people interested in either not making new laws- or reversing laws and practices that create government bloat and oversight on people’s lives.
Progressives are interested in changing crap.
Christian fundamentalists are probably the most radically progressive group in the country. They seek to create new laws that enforce some idealized perception of yesteryear that people may or may not have adhered to without legal binding.
Real conservatives, like Ron Paul, aren’t the people jailing people for having the wrong kind of fiction.
WTF does “controversial elements which, when taken out of context, could be objectionable to some audiences” even mean? If they’re trying to say that someone actually watching this anime wouldn’t find this objectionable — because clearly then it would all be in context — then who the hell are they worried about? How would anyone even know about this unless they saw this anime? And if you don’t watch it, you can’t be called an audience. This makes zero logical sense. I should say it makes about as much sense as blaming the edits on the menacing “progressives” does. I don’t care what the historical meaning of the word might have been. Right now it’s code for whomever morally bankrupt Republicans and their bufoonish mouthpieces like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly happen to have a beef with, so you can shove your snide remarks about people not understanding what the word means.
OK, here’s what Adam Arnold of Seven Seas Entertainment said about the DitVB manga at AOD:
“I’m proud to say that Dance in the Vampire Bund has been our best selling manga for months now. We’re constantly having to do reprints of the earlier volumes. And as the book’s editor, it’s awesome to see so many new people discovering just how great the series is month after month. It’s truly a unique piece of vampire fiction and something that fans of HBO’s True Blood and horror movies like Dog Soldiers would be crazy to pass up. I can’t sing the series’ praises enough. I’m hooked.”
Guess what, the manga isn’t censored. So why the #@%& does FUNimation have to censor the anime that takes its underage nudity straight from the manga? It’s not even underage really, because Mina is a grown vampire who chooses to look like a child. Where is the #@%&ing problem? And spare me this ridiculous bull about this somehow being Obama’s fault, like Al Hudson tried to claim and you also implied. Get real. Obama has bigger fish to fry than calling for witch hunts over animated nipples.
You know what’s hilarious about all this?
Bund, from a quality standpoint, isn’t even a good series!
We’re spewing flames over a show that didn’t even have the decency to adapt the manga it’s based on worth a darn.
And, seriously, Bund stops the loli nonsense about 2 or so volumes in and after that it’s like Death Note and [shonen show] had some sort of Speed Chess prodigal son.
But Shinbo, being the prat he is, decided “Nah, naked preteen” and went to work to the end result we see here.
I mean Funi had no business picking this up in the first place.
Hooray to my very first comment here after much lurking. I’ve noticed you always defend what FUNimation does, even if you say you disagree with them; but this time you’ve gone a bit overboard trying to find excuses for them. Caving to the progressive agenda would only happen if there was an imminent threat of persecution, which there is not. Trying to cover your ass doesn’t mean there has to be any particular entity or group actively after you. This is America, there are always idiots willing to launch frivolous lawsuits. If the Headley case were a real harbinger of doom, there are already a million bogus reasons to go after the various anime and manga companies, editing this particular anime wouldn’t matter any. This is just a way to tell people “you can buy this for your kid, we’re a considerate company that takes all the bad stuff out”, so parents can go ahead and get this for their vampire-obsessed offspring. It’s much more about money than it is about freedom.
While I’m ok with your anime censorship point of view, please let me add that “we the people” aren’t that good either.
Or else we wouldn’t need firefighters, policemen, laws, doctors or politicians.
We would always make the right decision, responsibly and fully-aware of the consequencies.
Why need a leader when you’re tolerant, open-minded and smart ?
As a European from France (you know, the social dictature for some of american liberalists), I’m always asounded that a country like USA accepts armed milicia, nambla stuff, and others pro-freedom abusers.
Just a look at the “past” financial crisis prooves how much some freedom-killing laws are necessary in an enlighten society.
“We the people” …
I prefer to say “We the morrons” :p
ANB: Personally, I think it would have been a lot better to lead off with an explanation of how you were defining “progressive” for purposes of this blog entry. Given that “liberals” have been switching over to self-identifying with the term “progressive”, it has the same potential to create backlash that referring to dictionary-definition “conservative” behavior would, given how often the term is thrown about with no accuracy. Even if the definition you’re using is “accurate” (itself a very relative term), which I’m not really sure of.
That said… people, frickin’ lighten up! I had the same “What?” reaction you did when I read it, because I fall partway into the self-identified “progressive” camp. But he quickly made it clear he was not referring to only one wing or the other. Whether you agree or disagree with ANB’s politics, do you not see that he’s arguing on the same side you are in this matter?
And please don’t be so quick to dismiss Handley’s case as meaningless. We’re only one ambitious prosecutor away from seeing more widespread by-the-letter interpretation of the PROTECT Act – which as it’s written would probably get everyone here arrested. No, I’m not kidding.
Last note, more of a question: Do I remember correctly that Seven Seas was the one that thought about doing Kodomo no Jikan, which would have been virtually guaranteed to get someone sent to prison for a decade or two?
Setting the overblown political finger-pointing aside entirely…
“So, assuming FUNimation doesn’t change its mind, they can no longer claim to be the company that never of their on volition edits the DVD release of their licenses.”
To be perfectly honest, this has never been the case. FUNimation started out as the company that dubbed and edited Dragonball Z for syndication on broadcast TV, and they bullheadedly maintained the practice well into the DVD era when no other American anime companies were doing that. Looking at it that way, it makes more sense to label FUNi the company that has been the longest and most persistent offender with edits on their anime products in all forms.
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aamazon.com+funimation+edited
“AstroNerdBoy’s Note: I used the term “edit” over “censor” because when a government passes a law and enforces it to cause a person or company to edit a work of art, it is censorship (ie: pornographic materials in Japan have to have censorship marks on the genitalia by law). When a person or company does the identical change to a work of art of their own volition without the rule of law to enforce it, it is an edit and not censorship.”
The definition you give here to the word censorship overall is actually the definition of Political Censorship. As Wikipedia demonstrates, the word in general has a much bigger definition.
What FUNimation is doing to DVB is Corporate Censorship. It’s not fair to call it an “edit” in the sense of “deleted scenes” because FUNimation didn’t actually create DVB, they’re only a middleman between we North Americans and the Japanese creater-owners. A “whole” incarnation of the work exists on the global market, but taking advantage of the exclusivity of license agreements FUNimation will be giving Americans something else, which equals censorship.
What are you talking about? Progressive ideology has nothing to do with suppressing free speech or censoring media. I’m a progressive and these talking points have never crossed my path. The only people ont he left who want to censor stuff are the conservative trash blue dogs. I remember all too well their crusade against video games 12 years ago.
It sucks they are censoring this show. Personally, i’d rather never see this filth licensed here in the first place. I have no doubt it probably has a deep, thoughtful story to tell, but the creators don’t help their case by explicitly advertising it as kiddy porn. FUNi would do well just to sit on this license.
Sigh…this is why I hate people who say that
Read the manga and see for yourslef that it isnt kiddy porn as you say…
dont judge until you read it..
The irony!
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/03/amazon-kills-affiliate-program-in-colorado-thanks-to-taxes.ars
@AstroNerdBoy
> The point of my article was to get thought going.
As far as I can tell, you managed to kill all meaningful discussion by introducing crummy partisan politics into this…
@Mike B — how is attacking both left-wing and right-wing progressives “partisan?”
@Mike B — how is attacking both left-wing and right-wing progressives “partisan?”
Progressivism is a political ideology. (It happens to be the favorite ideological lightning rod of conservative pundit Glenn Beck, who is one of ANB’s relatively few follows on Twitter, not that there’s necessarily anything wrong with that.)
The word “progressive” doesn’t appear once in any of Funimation’s statements about Dance in the Vampire Bund, and framing Funimation’s decision on this as an act of Progressive ideology amounts to consciously politicizing the issue.
Anonymous said:
“And spare me this ridiculous bull about this somehow being Obama’s fault, like Al Hudson tried to claim and you also implied. Get real. Obama has bigger fish to fry than calling for witch hunts over animated nipples.”
First of all, I never mentioned Obama by name. That said, his policies are designed to bring us ever closer to a nanny state where government regulates everything, and he’s empowered the Justice Department to execute his progressive agenda. So yeah, I’m pretty sure that if FUNimation is afraid of getting prosecuted, it’s because of that kind of expansion of government intervention. I’m sorry if you’re unwilling to face the facts in this matter.
The PROTECT Act of 2003 which made “virtual” child pornography illegal and pretty much left the definition up to prosecutors was sponsored by Orrin Hatch and signed into law by George Bush, but there’s plenty of blame to go around. 219 of the 250 Democrats in Congress voted for it.
(It passed the House of Representatives 400-25, and it passed the Senate 84-0. For the record, Obama wasn’t even in the Senate yet.)
Republicans are not the only ones to blame, though God knows most of them love to beat their morality drums. Democrats are not the only ones to blame, though God knows most of them have balls that can’t even be located with an electron microscope if a Republican says “Boo.” Every pusillanimous opinion whore that voted for it is to blame.
And ANB is not to blame at all, unless he’s been pulling the wool over our eyes and he’s actually a congresscritter. I wouldn’t bet on it, though. (^_^)
Guys, you’re OBVIOUSLY not up to date on your right-wing talking points. There most certainly are right-wing progressives. That’s the term that the far right uses for RINOs or anyone that’s identified as a Republican but isn’t endorsing the teabagger or Christian dominionist platforms.
Since the right suceeded so well with painting “liberal” as an epithet, the left needed to come up with a new word. Hence, bringing back “progressive”. It goes without saying that the right now has to make sure to also smear “progressives” along with their usual target of “liberals”.
(Of course, the point here is simply that to the far right, “progressive” is nothing but a meaningless insult, something to be vilified.)
I’d like to say that I support the liberty of art and entertainment, because as an amature writer, I feel that if censership or the “Editorial Process” of my peers prevails then I might not be able to educate people beyond what someone else tells me I can or can not say.
Like most people in the world, and clearly present on the internet, that hide behind a lot of anonimous comments, they have no real justification for the nonsense that they spew, all too eager to point a holy finger at someone for rocking the boat, and only clearly reading those parts of a well rounded article that they only want to read.
This isn’t about Dance In The Vampire Bund any longer, this is about the fact that the people reading this article have become offended because their limited view of the world, and way that it works realistically has been brought into question, and the waters are suddenly becoming more than they are willing to acept, and comprehend.
The ramifications of “give an inch, and they’ll take a mile” has obviously never crossed a lot of people’s minds. But the fact is, there are dangers inherent in the blatant acceptance of anything without question. So when I see so many people so eager to hail themselves as a “Label” of political view I laugh, and chuckle, because really, Big Brother mentality isn’t concerned with political ideals or what church you go to, or how good of a Democrat or Republican people have been; it will run riot over us in a heart-beat, as it unleashes its own agenda, and circumvents all that the liberties we are supposed to pursue stand for.
Are there things that should not exist? Why yes, I’m not a fool that will stand here and say that child pornography is an acceptable medium of entertainment, but I’m not so ignorant as to point a finger at artwork and label it a crime against humanity. Nor at the portraits of countless painters and sculptors over the decades and centuries should be labelled “Indecent”, because people that fail to tell the difference between a real issue and manufactured one fall prey to the clutches of a dominating and tyrannical leadership, that if given the opportunity will eventually strip away every form of priviledge and freedom available to us our amendments.
Instead of focusing on the real problem, people have shut their eyes to a downward spiral in todays society; and this isn’t the real crimes, like rape and murder, and drug addiction, and gang related atrocities.
We don’t want to have to be good parents and decide what our children should watch, so we let the MPAA rating decide for us. We don’t know how to discipline our children so we let someone else tell us how to do that. More and more we offer the choice of our actions to someone else, and instead of standing up and saying “Give me liberty or give me death” we are all, everyone of us crying “Give me what you want me to have!”
I don’t have the luxury of looking at the decay of humanity with a white-washed expression of sheep to the slaughter; because I want better for the people that I care about, and the family I am working to start. I want what is best for me, and for my own, and when I grant those powers of decision to someone else, and let them raise my family, and care for my loved ones, then I have failed; both as a man, a son, and future father.
Shame on all of you, for letting your selfish political interests cloud the bigger issue that I think ANB was attempting to point out, because it is exactly that self-righteous self-centered readily justifiable mentality that will have everyone blinded to the real harm and dangers in the world.
I think a lot of the people present in these comments need to calm down, drink a glass of water, and go embrace their loved ones and be grateful that we live in a country that we even get the option of arguing about the nuances of consorship and art editing.
You people seriously need to actually educate yourselves so you don’t look like idiots when you speak or type.
Being a progressive has nothing to do with being a democrat or a liberal. As he has said several times already, there are Liberal Progressives and Conservative Progressives.
Example: F.D.R and Hillary Clinton are liberal progressives. Ronald Reagan and Sarah Palin are conservative progressives.
And for how much key democrats like the above mention Hillary Clinton have worked to censor anime and videogames, I don’t see how you can call it a “bible-thumping” agenda.
FUNimation is paying attention to all the controversy. Rojas made a post on their blog.
Anyone who thinks AstroNerdBoy sincerely meant to include the right-wing “progressives” in his assessment of who forced this on FUNimation, raise your hand.
Didn’t think so. Even though they would fit the bill far better than the left-wingers, considering the specifics here.
The reason many people are upset with this article is that they don’t like demagoguery that attempts to masquerade as objectivity.
“Ronald Reagan and Sarah Palin are conservative progressives.” (emphasis mine)
Huh? Maybe you’re the one who needs to learn to think straight.
Dude, censorship is associated with authoritarianism. Authoritarianism by its very nature is right with socially right-wing politics — i.e. reactionaries and conservatives. Economics have nothing to do with this.
You, Al Hudson and others here seriously need to stop being in denial of the fact that the people you most admire are the types that advocate the kind of censorship you’re complaining about here.
There’s fair bit to take in from your commentary, with me going back and forth between nodding in agreement, staring blankly at the screen going “huh?”, and facepalming. I’m not sure what the reply size limit is, so apologies if I have to split it up.
First off, like you, I oppose any and all editing of anime and manga (I can deal with editing of anime for TV airings so long as the home video releases are unedited). It’s highly likely that I will not buy a title that’s edited, especially if it’s anything more than the most minor an unnoticeable of edits.
For example, I was planning on getting the Tenjo Tenge manga, but when it was revealed that CMX was going to heavily edit it, I decided against buying it. As for DitVB, I’ve read a fair amount of the manga and it’s pretty interesting, and based on the Japanese trailer of it I saw on YouTube, I was interested in possibly getting the anime, but Funi lost a potential sale with their announcement.
Funimation is, in response to the backlash against the edits of DitVB, now considering releasing the series uncut on DVD. If they do, then and only then will they get my money for it.
What really bugs me about Funi’s decision is that it’s entirely pointless and unnecessary. First off, several volumes of the DitVB manga has been released in English by Seven Seas uncut, and the anime is supposedly tamer than the manga (most TV anime are compared to their manga versions). Second, Funimation themselves have released material that would be considered far more questionable than DitVB, with Mnemosyne being a commonly-cited example. Add to this the myriad other series that have similar content (DitVB’s Mina is an obvious expy of Evangeline McDowell: both are diminuitive blonde vampires with hot adult forms and are often shown in skimpy clothes and various states of undress) yet haven’t been the focus of any sort of controversy. All of these facts render Funi’s rationale rather nonsensical. There’s simply no real reason for them to do this. You said “This is not the 90’s. We are not stupid,” which I think is an accurate description of current Western anime fandom. We’re a lot savvier than we were back then, and this kind of thing just doesn’t fly anymore. We might deal with anime being edited for TV airings, but not for home video.
I was also annoyed by their rather patronizing comment that the edited scenes are “inappropriate for U.S. viewing.” As I stated in my comment at the ANN boards the other day regarding this story, I don’t particularly appreciate such condescension. I’m an adult and can decide for myself what’s appropriate for me.
Which brings me to the political and social commentary part of your post. Unfortunately, I’m going to have to cut this short (it’s already 5 A.M., so looks like post size limits aren’t what got me >_<;), but to preview my follow up, I will be griping about your choice of terms (though not so much your choice of targets) and agreeing and disagreeing with various things you said. Oh, and the scanlation of ch. 282 of Negima is out (Now With Watermarks!!). Just thought I’d give you a heads up before I go JIC you haven’t seen it yet.
Same kind of thinking forces censorship in the country and military intervention outside. It all “for the better”. Serbia and Montenegro with Clinton, Iraq with Bush. On other hand if those guys haven’t exercise them-self outside USA, they would have more time for censorship and propaganda inside.
USA would be USSSA(United Soviet Socialistic States of America).
AstroNerdBoy, I’m a progressive and I can tell you right now that I hate censorship with a passion, as do all the progressives I know. I think those of us you’ve offended with your off-the-wall characterization of us as supporters of censorship deserve an explanation from you. For you to not respond to valid criticism after some of the peculiar statments you’ve made smells of deliberate trolling.
One more thing. I’d really like to know what prompted you to turn to Glenn Beck with this. The reason I came here and read your article was because someone at ANN mentioned how you’d sent a tweet to Glenn Beck about it. That definitely got my attention. As you can imagine, I strongly dislike Glenn Beck; but it’s fine with me if you like him. I just don’t understand why you thought it’d be a good idea to get him involved, because the media always sensationalizes topics like this. The “liberal” media does it too, I’m not singling out Fox.
OK, I don’t have time to go through this whole thread to respond everywhere but I’d like to thank everyone who participated. I’m also informed that there were some serious glitches in the comment system and indeed, there are still some. So I apologize about that and am checking with Google.
Anyway, for those wondering, I’m a libertarian. I kinda always suspected it but after I took the Nolan Test, this was confirmed. I had a couple of friends who call themselves progressive take the test and they came up mostly libertarian with some liberal leanings. They were both surprised by this.
Since I saw Blake’s post, I am going to respond to it real quick.
Not all progressives walk in lock-step. A Republican progressive believes in a big government, but generally goes for conservative tax-cutting policies to fund that big government. A Democrat progressive also believes in big government, only they generally fund it with higher taxes. Both parties grow the debt.
Presidents Nixon, Bush, and Bush were progressive Republicans. Look at their policies. Nixon went for price controls and if I recall correctly, he’s the one who did away with the Social Security “lock box” to hide deficit spending (I’d have to research that but I don’t have time at present). He also took us off the gold standard. The first Bush raised taxes. The second Bush lowered taxes, but created new entitlement programs and called his brand of progressive thought “compassionate conservatism.” Even without the war, the government grew quite a lot under the second President Bush.
Then comes President Obama and while he talked a good game, there really have been no changes to Bush’s foreign policy (two wars, Gitmo, Patriot Act, etc.). He has proposed even more government and his spending dwarfs that of President Bush, even with the wars.
I only mention this because I’m amazed that so many people seemed to think that I attacked Democrats when I say “progressives” when if fact I’m opposed to government butting their nose into my business on any level. I don’t want some ultra-right wing extremist who would “progress” this country into a theocracy or fascist state, nor do I want some ultra-left wind extremist who would “progress” this country into a communist state.
If you think left-wing progressives wouldn’t stop free speech, look at countries like Venezuela where that’s exactly what has happened. Heck, even in our own country, I hear left-wing progressives talk about how they need to stop talk radio or FoxNews.
Still, if you think that left wing progressives aren’t interested in censorship, might I suggest you look into Al Gore’s wife and the campaigns she led regarding TV and video game violence. Also, how many Democrat progressives voted for the PROTECT Act of 2003 with its censorship provisions? (Protecting children is one thing, but the censorship aspects were also included to also protect children, which I object to.)
As I see it, progressives in government and other places of power want to control our lives. I don’t care if they call themselves Christian, Atheist, Republican, or Democrat.
Oh — I was tied up in some projects which is why I’ve only been able to get some things done with the blog today. And now, I have to get back to those things.
@Blake:
You’re making mistake her. Explain what makes you “Progressive” except your own opinion. Are you member of party?
ANB gave his definition of the word. Then many others said that he using anachronism.
But if we look at the root of the word (‘progress’) we would understand that Progressives is people that do something to improve society. But there is other side everyone who isn’t “Progressive” don’t understand what is better (or too lazy) for society and should be led by the nose. And so Progressives should look forward and prevent problems for society by banning harmful things before harm was inflicted. And that leads us to censorship.
Are you still sure you’re progressive?
@ANB — “I’m also informed that there were some serious glitches in the comment system and indeed, there are still some. So I apologize about that and am checking with Google.”
Is that why my question about the Glenn Beck tweet didn’t show up, or was it blocked by your staff for some reason? My question was similar to Blake’s and I didn’t say anything disrespectful, so I was baffled when it never appeared here even tho I got the confirmation message that it was waiting for approval. Looks like you still don’t want to answer the question tho, or you’d have responded to Blake.
@verynew — So it’s OK for right-wingers to label their political opponents “progressives”, but it’s a problem when those so labeled start using the term to refer to themselves? I rarely watch Glenn Beck so I’m open to corrections, but I’m under the impression that he’s pretty soft on “right-wing progressives”, to use ANB’s terminology. It’s not a stretch to think that ANB is with Glenn Beck on this after seeing his twitter activity.
Ok, so I got tired enough of being unsure what a fair definition of “progressive” is that I went to Wikipedia. God knows it’s anything but a perfect source, but it at least tries to be not take sides.
“Progressivism is a political attitude favoring or advocating changes or reform.”
In this case, a progressive would be solidly AGAINST censorship because it’s the norm.
“Progressivism is often viewed in opposition to conservative or reactionary ideologies.”
“associated with left-wing politics in the United States…”
“Today, most progressive politicians in the United States associate with the Democratic Party or the Green Party US.”
Actions speak louder than words – only a small fraction of the left wing had the balls the stand up against the PROTECT Act that by letter makes most manga and anime illegal. But the official platforms of both the Democrats and the Greens give lip service to opposing morality-based censorship.
~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry, ANB – but it says nothing about US progressives being pro-big-government. It even contradicts this, saying that they’re more skeptical of it than liberals, and “advocates of government reform”. One could imply a love of big government from progressivism’s origins (trying to get better working conditions, regulate or abolish child labor, and improve tenement housing), but that’s undue conflation of the means with the end. And these days, claiming that someone is “pro-government” verges on stooping to meaningless namecalling, given the way some circles have made “gubmint” a pejorative.
If your source of the definition is the Nolan test, I’d strongly suggest reconsidering its alleged neutrality. Just a cursory glance over it shows that it’s skewed towards a biased perspective – a neutral test would describe each view from its most positive aspect and with its own preferred wording, not each view as seen by proponents of one view. You might as well take a Venezuelan test that determines whether you’re an evil capitalist or a good socialist.
@Anonymous:
‘So it’s OK for right-wingers to label their political opponents “progressives”, but it’s a problem when those so labeled start using the term to refer to themselves?’
I don’t know who Glenn Beck is. And I’m not progressive enough to read twitter. So I tend to have my own opinion and I don’t care much about inner affairs of USA (’cause I live in Russia).
Censorship do not limited to politics, ideology and art. Censorship can reach as far as you might imagine: eggs for breakfast, wearing fur, consumption of wine and pork, non-straight and premarital sex, Islam, stem cells. Each of those things might be banned for peoples good: eggs and wine for health, fur for environment, sex for family, Islam ’cause it breading fundamentalists (that against pork, sex and wine), stem cells and pork for purity.
Even Internet and Television might be banned because of DitVB and other echi and hentai anime. There is no logical limitation for censorship. If they can ban a color of skin they can ban anything.
Babylon is good example of society without progressives at all – those guys were drunk by their superior construction technology, there was no one to say ‘guys challenging God is fullish in the best and amoral in the worst case, please stop!’. All society was united in rebellious attitude toward havens. – They failed.
Then there is a Jesus – he was sent for sinners. When demigod offering required to return humanity or right path it’s a bad sign for society – something like last warning.
When society changing, someone should watch-out for any threats – being ignorant is moral crime in this case.
So, are you sure that you’re without a sin (on your soul) to throw stones and call your-self Progressive? Can you handle such moral duty? Do you deserve it? May be you at least know such a man (or woman)?
@verynew
No offense, but you’re doing little more than further muddying the waters. Like it or not, we are talking about US politics here, and how the different camps here use the label “progressive”. We are not talking about the Communists who messed up your country with their variety of ideas of progress, or Babylon or Jesus or Islam. If you don’t know who Glenn Beck is, you probably don’t know enough to talk about the specifics here. You’re free to express your opinion, but it doesn’t have a lot to do with the topic at hand.
Not the same Anonymous you responded to BTW.
I got a little sidetracked yesterday and I forgot to finish what I was going to say, but here I am… rock you like a hurricane (sorry, couldn’t resist β_β;).
So where was I? Oh yeah.
One thing that really bugs me about political discourse in this country is that people play fast and loose with definitions of terms, particularly those of political philosophies. Everybody seems to think they’re entitled to just redefine things just because it’s rhetorically convenient. For example, during the last administration, a lot of the anti-Bush/anti-war crowd were keen on calling Dubya a “fascist” even though he is nothing of the sort. So-called “neo-conservative” foreign policy, while hawkish and interventionist in nature and favoring unilateral preemptiveness, is not fascistic in nature, regardless of what you might gather from, say, the PNAC website (scary, yes; fascist, no). Neither is aligning oneself with the religious right fascistic, nor is cozying up to corporate interests. The idea that the Bush admin in specific or conservatives (esp. the “New Right”) in general is somehow the American counterpart of the Mussolini, Hitler, Antonescu, or Franco regimes (or of right-wing military dictatorships like Chile under Pinochet) is ridiculous.
Today, the teabagger/anti-Obama movement is keen on calling him “socialist,” “communist,” and, oddly enough, “fascist.” Well, first off keep in mind that fascism and socialism/communism are mutually exclusive. Besides, if Bush isn’t a fascist (and he’s not), then Obama sure as hell isn’t one. Anywho, conservatives calling liberals “socialists/commies” is old hat. Favoring expansive social insurance programs does not make one a socialist, much less a communist, Marxist or whatever more specific kind of socialism (there are many). Favoring government regulation of industry (as opposed to public ownership of all means of production) doesn’t make one a socialist either. Nor does being overly PC. Political correctness has nothing to do with socialism of any kind. To suggest that the Obama administration in specific or liberals in general are anything like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, or even benign socialists like those of various non-authoritarian democratic socialist parties the world over, is patently ludicrous.
In addition to distorting definitions to use terms as epithets and insults, some people even try to twist terms to their liking for purposes of self-identification, which is just as wrong. For example, Glenn Beck likes to call himself a libertarian, but if he’s a libertarian then I’m the King of All Cosmos.
Now to address you directly, ANB. You seem to define progressivism as “statism.” Unlike the whole “commie/fascist” name-calling I hear all the time, this is the first time I’ve heard “progressive” used in the sense you’re using it. That’s a new one on me. I’m not sure where you got that idea, but that’s not what progressivism is. Arimareiji already addressed this, so I’ll save myself some time and refer you to his post or to Wiki’s “Progressivism” article.
But I will add that just like conservatives shouldn’t call liberals “commies” or liberals shouldn’t label conservatives “fascists,” neither should you conflate progressivism with statism of any kind. Use a term like “Moral Guardians” (my favorite) or “nanny staters” instead of “progressives.” It’ll result in less of a flame war if you refrain from using a term like “progressive” in a way that is not only decidedly non-standard, but also decidedly inaccurate.
Okay. That’s enough of me griping about definitions. That aside, you do make some great points, while other points I don’t agree with but I’m going to have to save that commentary for another time. I’m out of space, plus it’s almost sun-up and I’m tired.
@SotV: This might be the missing link between “progressivism” and “statism”, from an article on the Nolan Test site that ANB linked:
“Glenn Beck replaced the word “statist” with “progressive” in his discussion of the [Nolan Test] on his TV program last Friday.”
Thanks for educating ANB, ShadowOfTheVoid, because if what arimareiji suggested is true — /prolonged facepalm/
The moral of this story — following in Glenn Beck’s footsteps is unlikely to lead anyone to intellectual heights. ^o^
My initial comment I submitted was either too caustic or hit too close to home for you to feel comfortable approving, so I’ll tone it down and make it simple.
You’re in over your head here and don’t understand half of the terms you’re using. Don’t mistake my (or anyone else’s) criticisms as being mere disagreements. It’s that you’ve written an incoherent spiel with no connection to everyday reality as people outside of your bubble live it.
To asset oneself of being correct while showing no proof of the matter is not only logically bankrupt but all too common of those in the wrong knowingly.
Crap, my browser crashed and I don’t know if my comment went through or not. Asking again; discard if you got the first one.
So are you going to give us your answer to why you sent Glenn Beck a link to this post via Twitter or not? It’s not a hard to understand question and several people have asked it.
I’ll let ANB know you desperately want an answer but he’s rather busy at the moment in a project.
Okay. I’m back. I wanted to make a couple of more comments, but I won’t elaborate as much since it’s late.
Like I said the other night, you do make some great points in your article. I like how you go after moral guardians (and their enablers) of all political persuasions. While the right tends to be the most vocal and vociferous about cultural issues and will more readily attempt to invoke the power of the state to prohibit, curb, or regulate things they find immoral, liberals and centrist Dems can often be just as bad (though their targets are usually different).
I also appreciate the fact that despite your beliefs and moral convictions, you care enough about other’s freedom as to not wish your morals inflicted upon others. I take it you’re familiar with the Harm Principle elaborated in John Stuart Mill’s On Liberty. I live my life by this “no harm, no foul” ideology. Being merely offended by something isn’t sufficient to justify getting the state involved to any degree.
Of course, this does result in me having opinions about the role of government that differ from those of the typical libertarian (if I had to be assigned a label, it’d be “libertarian-leaning liberal” if we go by the Nolan Chart; in the liberal quadrant, but pretty close to the liberal-libertarian boundary). However, I don’t have the time, and these comments don’t have the space, for me to elaborate on my opinions on the role of government, so I’m going to call it a night.
I’m tired of checking back here for a reply to my other request, so in the absence of any other explanation I’ll take AstroNerdBoy’s silence as an admission that trying to get a media personality like Glenn Beck involved in this whole thing wasn’t a smart move.
If you have a problem with that, by all means post a rebuttal, maybe I’ll even see it if I don’t forget about this place. Thanks for responding to my other comment at least, not that I agree with your terminology.
Well, since I just happen to have five whole minutes, I’ll make a quick response.
I’ll take AstroNerdBoy’s silence as an admission that trying to get a media personality like Glenn Beck involved in this whole thing wasn’t a smart move.
What does my silence in every other comment made in the last few days mean? Frank made a post to explain that I was busy. Heck, I see he even updated the “Leave your comment” notice above the block one writes their post to say that responses from me could take time. ^_^;
I had planned to write something yesterday since Sunday’s are normally not too busy for me. I managed to get to Tenchi Board and that was about it (I think) before the crap hit the fan.
Anyway, my reasons for notifying Glenn Beck are very simple and completely unimportant. However, I will say that I did not expect him or his staff to read the remarks from me and even if he did, I expected nothing more. If anything, he could accuse me of spamming him. ^_^;;;;
And yeah, I do like Glenn Beck though I do think he gets a bit too negative at times. I find that most folks who don’t like him don’t actually watch the show but simply get the selected clips off YouTube or selected quotes from people who don’t like Glenn Beck.
@ANB: You’re a far more charitable man than I am for spending the time to respond civilly. If it were me and I’d even responded, I’m old/mean/ornery enough that it’d have probably been blisteringly NSFW. And thank you for not judging an entire “side” by its most egregious examples.
My apologies m(_._)m for mentioning Glenn Beck’s connection to the Nolan test; it seems to have had the same effect as opening a gas can while there were children were playing with matches nearby.
@ Certain demi-trolls (if you’re worried that I might mean you, then you’re probably not who I mean): This might be a good reference point to go back to. It’s shameful to get thoroughly schooled in this quality by your perceived opponent, if you claim to be the one who’s espousing it.
@arimareiji — I didn’t take things personally. I wanted to write something different and express my own frustrations with government people who increasingly want more control over my life and choices, whether they are on the right or the left of the political spectrum. Like it or not, whenever laws are passed “for our own good,” there is always fallout that makes things worse. But I digress…
As to the Nolan Test and Glenn Beck, no worries. ^_^
@arimareiji — What is your problem? You know perfectly well that ANB and his staff moderate the comments at this blog, so if they thought something was unacceptable, it would never appear here. That being the case, how is your own comment slamming posts accepted by ANB not trolling? Get off your high horse, man.
Unless you think that getting Glenn Beck involved in the Vampire Bund controversy is/was desirable, what exactly is your objection to people asking ANB to justify his actions that could have led to that happening? This isn’t just about whether or not someone likes Glenn Beck. In fact it’s barely about that at all. Perhaps you’ve heard of the recent lower priced black Barbie doll controversy manufactured by CNN and others? Now imagine if that slow news day story had instead been about unsavory content in anime, and the weirdo anime fans’ rage over FUNimation’s removal of it. Not wanting to get the media involved in a story like this is not an ideological issue, it’s common sense.
@Anonymous: If you read the rest of the board, it should be relatively obvious what I was referring to: Outright attacking and insulting someone under the guise of opposing intolerance is just plain stupid, and that did take place a few times. Claiming that ANB’s willingness to tolerate it makes it okay isn’t a particularly logical rationalization.
If you’re the Anon who made the comment of “So are you going to give us your answer to why you sent Glenn Beck a link to this post via Twitter or not?” and think I was referring to that — I wasn’t. Whether or not the comment was importunate, it doesn’t sink to the level of demi-trolling.
As I said before, “if you’re worried that I might mean you, then you’re probably not who I mean”.
Question for AstroNerdBoy
Just out of curiosity, would you still have posted this article if I and some others hadn’t encouraged you to do it in the other comment thread soon after the news broke?
Anonymous said…
“You, Al Hudson and others here seriously need to stop being in denial of the fact that the people you most admire are the types that advocate the kind of censorship you’re complaining about here.”
You’re the one in denial, my friend. The kind of government intrusion into every sphere of the lives of American people that we’re seeing under this administration is unprecedented in modern times, and it all stems from progressive ideology.
You people need to stop hating on Glenn Beck whose popularity stands to show that most people agree with his points, and do some research on this topic before you start vilifying AstroNerdBoy who simply pointed out the facts to you.
arimareiji said…
“In this case, a progressive would be solidly AGAINST censorship because it’s the norm.”
Last I checked, freedom of speech was still the norm, not censorship. All the progressive PC and anti-religious nonsense notwithstanding. Trying to eradicate all mentions of God and trying to ban Christmas celebrations is not what I’d call being against censorship. The defining characteristic of a progressive is that he or she always knows better what you really need than you do. Who cares if Wikipedia tries to white-wash that kind of thing, it’s well known for its liberal bias.
@scorpiowolf — No. *lol* The series is not one I care about and so I would have rolled my eyes in annoyance that a company felt the need to protect itself and edit the series on DVD but I would have moved on.
The fact that so many people did ask me to comment on this did inspire me to write. Since I’m anti-big government no matter who’s in charge combined with wanting to write something different, well this was the result. ^_^;
@Al Hudson:
“The kind of government intrusion into every sphere of the lives of American people that we’re seeing under this administration is unprecedented in modern times, and it all stems from progressive ideology.”
Really? When do you think the PATRIOT and PROTECT Acts were passed? And can you point to any specific examples in the last couple of years that even come close in terms of censorship or intrusiveness? Don’t get me wrong, both “sides” are to blame for those two botched abortions of the Constitution – but it’s more than a little silly to blame Obama for them, as he was only a state senator at the time.
“You people need to stop hating on Glenn Beck whose popularity stands to show that most people agree with his points”
Some? Certainly, and it is worth note. Most? Unlikely.
“Last I checked, freedom of speech was still the norm, not censorship.”
Freedom of government-/corporate-/MoralGuardian-approved speech is NOT freedom of speech as I believe in it. Try using complete freedom of speech in a school, an airport, a government building, a public ‘Net terminal, an anti-war or anti-globalization rally, etc and see what happens. It’ll be a rude awakening.
“The defining characteristic of a progressive is that he or she always knows better what you really need than you do.”
The defining characteristic of a progressive is that they’re someone you disagree with and everyone loves to hate?
“Who cares if Wikipedia tries to white-wash that kind of thing, it’s well known for its liberal bias.”
Well, the “wordanistas” at Webster’s seem to agree with their definition a lot more closely than yours. That puts you dangerously close to truthiness territory.
@arimareiji
You’re wasting your time with Al Hudson. It’s clear from what he’s been saying that he neither has nor needs any supporting evidence for his claims other than his hardened idea that progressives are out to get him and his precious religion and guns. Whether it’s actually true doesn’t seem to matter to those people.
It all comes back to ANB’s inflammatory claims about progressives. You complained about people hitting back at ANB, but it’s a tall order to remain respectful after someone accuses those with our world view of wanting to strip America of its freedoms. All because FUNimation made a business decision, which by the way we didn’t support exactly because of our world view. The kind of vocabulary used by ANB was way too similar to some right-wing ideologues to not draw some obvious parallels, and people like Al Hudson surfacing to spout their talking points confirms that. It’s good that ANB doesn’t support censorship, but he deserves the backlash after the kind of baseless finger-pointing he chose to engage in. It’s pretty rich to call it trolling when people quite rightfully get upset about being tarred and feathered for no good reason.
I don’t consider it baseless. I see almost ALL of our elected leaders as jackass fools who desperately want to control our lives in one form or another. I wish our country would go back to the time when being in government wasn’t a full time job. Instead, elected members of Congress only came to Washington D.C. to take care of business for a few weeks, then returned to the real world to earn a living. That kept them grounded in reality.
Today, all the elected fools do is work on their next election and try to buy votes with give-aways. Well, actually with health care, they’ve gone even further and decided that they don’t work FOR the people of the U.S. as their representatives, but must FORCE the American people to take their medicine because Big Brother knows what is best for you.
Frankly, I don’t care if it is a right-winger or a left-winger — government needs to stay out of my business. Life is NOT fair and government cannot make it so.
@Anonymous:
I could be wrong, but I believe ANB’s use of the word “progressive” was an innocent mistake based on thinking Glenn Beck had a good-faith, non-pejorative basis for calling statists progressives. It happens. We all tend to believe people at face value until we’re given reason to do otherwise.
If you made an honest mistake based on repeating something Michael Moore said without checking it first, would it be fair (for the sake of example, not asserting he would) for Al Hudson to start attacking you personally and telling you what a flaming idiot you are? Or perhaps more to the point, would it make you more likely to listen and reconsider the accuracy of what you’d mistakenly repeated, or more likely to dig in your heels and start attacking back? (Please don’t resort to “That wouldn’t happen because I never do that” – we all do that sometimes.)
“They did it first” only generates a rapid downspiral of civility. What “they” did always looks worse to us than what “we” do (and vice versa), because we tend to attribute goodwill and innocent mistakes to ourselves, but not to “Them”.
Any fool can sit happily in their bunker of like-minded people and throw verbal grenades at a nebulous Them. The only way good can ever come of debate is if we’re willing to put our wounded egos aside long enough to listen, instead of just assuming They’re Evil And They Hate Freedom And They Want The Terrorists To Win.
And to be explicit, I wouldn’t say this if I considered you to be a recalcitrant fool who only wants to throw grenades. I say this because I think maybe you’ll listen, whether you agree or not.
I read your article because I remember you being an admin at FUNi and so the title sounded like you might have some interesting insight into anime industry issues. It was disappointing to see you climbing on a political soap box instead. The kind of hand-waving you used to combine the religious right and the bleeding heart left into “the progressive movement” made me laugh out loud, because in order to be a movement they’d need to work together or at least see eye to eye on issues, which totally isn’t what’s happening. I guess after all the brouhaha FUNi became more afraid of anime fans than it was of your “progressives”, so we’re getting the uncensored DVD release.
@arimareiji — It’s interesting how you can keep insulting ANB’s intelligence in an indirect manner, using generalized statements or Al Hudson as a proxy — all while schooling others on civility. It’s a common tactic employed by those who think they know better, such as the progressive camp, who can’t be seen dirtying their hands. He might not even notice you’re doing it, the nice guy that he is.
@tsk-tsk AKA Anonymous: If you have any logical reasoning to back your assertion, sooner might be better than later to demonstrate it.
That is a deliberate veiled insult to someone’s intelligence.
There’s a giant difference between making an innocent mistake (something that, as I said, we ALL do) and feigning (or possibly not feigning) stupidity when called out. I have more than enough faith in ANB’s goodwill to believe that with him, it’s the former. You, I don’t know about anymore.
I must admit I too had a number of “huh?” moments reading your post, but after reading your comments as well I think I more or less get where you’re coming from. But I also get why many people didn’t take it too well because of some of those “huh?”-ish claims. Shit happens, I guess.
With FUNimation reconsidering, all’s well that ends well, I suppose.
Oh, and folks who think like Al Hudson need to drink less Kool-Aid. Just sayin’.
Cause we all know how open-minded Democrats are. π
http://ani-nouto.animeblogger.net/2010/03/26/democrat-from-nh-wants-to-nuke-japan-for-anime/
This is why people on the internet are fail.
Everyone criticizes or becomes offended how the message is delivered rather than processing the idea, THE VERY REASON FOR THE MESSAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
So what if this guy used the wrong term or label, is a monkey still a monkey if a human isn’t there to call it a monkey?
The point is, the far left AND the far right are made up of narrow-minded idiots with an AGENDA!
They both push for censorship when it paints them in a bad light or goes against what they stand for.
Now go back to trolling this kid on how he doesn’t understand progressivism… Because you missed the whole point of his post.
Ah, “progressive” conservatives. Always willing to re-light the fires whenever they’re about to go out with a Youtube video, blog post, or Newsmax article. Truly a people controlled by how specifically the message can be shaped. (Kinda ironic, eh Previous Poster Guy?)
I’m kidding, of course (no), but it’s a perfect example of what’s wrong with Anonymous commenting. (Him, I mean, not me.)
Yes there are A LOT of inappropriate and explicit themes in this series that all in all are “sick”, but even so I personally believe that Dance in the Vampire Bund is an amazing and beautiful series and it will always have a special place in my heart; manga AND anime. No matter the reason, this series is still special (to me anyway) and should not be constantly criticized and torn away from streaming just because of suggestive themes and “child pornography.” It deserved so much more love and recognition for the beautiful art style and story itself and the work put into it rather than the little things. That’s my opinion anyway.
Well, I don’t think it should be either and I wouldn’t call it child porn. It just isn’t for me.
Thanks for writing. π
“At this point, I will say that the government has the right to protect children from those who would sexually exploit them and indeed MUST do this. Thatβs why it is not a progressive law to outlaw child pornography. Manga and doujinshi depicting drawings of kids engaged in sex is not child pornography. It is sick, depraved, etc., but it is not the business of the federal government to determine what you as a consumer should or should not read.”
Honestly, sounds like an excuse to consume child pornography and violently explicit material.
Someone drawing something, no matter how sick, should not be illegal. Actual CP should be banned because an actual child was harmed.
11 years later, the comments along the lines that “progressives don’t censor” are hilarious.
Hahaha! I took such a beating over this, and lost a lot of readers. But I could so easily see what was coming back then, only it went even further than even I expected. π