May 24th, 2012 
AstroNerdBoy フェイト/ゼロ Episode 20
Fate/Zero – 20
SPOILER Summary/Synopsis:
Kiritsugu comes to his hideout, where in the storeroom, Maiya has Iri laying in a mandala. As Maiya waits outside, Iri extracts Avalon from her body to give to Kiritsugu, whom she says will need it more than she. After Kiritsugu apologizes for not being able to show Iri more of the world, she tells him that the nine years with him, and having his daughter are happiness to her, something she wasn’t supposed to have. To that end, she wants Kiritsugu to bring Ilya to Japan to show her the places he would have shown Iri. After Kiritsugu leaves to find Tokiomi, Iri and Maiya have a conversation, where Iri reveals her wish is to end the Holy Grail Wars. Elsewhere, Kariya is given a new worm to make him more powerful.
As Saber hunts for Rider, Waver stocks up on some food supplies and returns to the woods where he summoned Rider, in order that Rider can recover faster. The two have a heart-to-heart, where Waver not only reveals that he knows Rider used his own mana rather than Waver’s, but Waver also wants to share the risk with Rider. Meanwhile, Kiritsugu finds that Tokiomi has been killed by an unknown party. As he investigates, Maiya and Iri come under attack by Rider, who kidnaps Iri and injures Maiya, though she reports the attack to Kiritsugu, who uses a Command Spell to send Saber to the storeroom. Maiya has Saber go after Rider, and sometime later, Kiritsugu arrives before Maiya dies, where she asks him to save his tears for his wife.
Thoughts/Review:
Whoa! A lot happened here, including some nice character work.
It wasn’t much, but I liked getting a bit of history of Maiya’s life. While I had accepted Maiya’s devotion to Kiritsugu, and thus Iri, knowing the history behind it made her death more meaningful in my opinion. Plus, I liked the fact that Kiritsugu showed that he cared for her, even if he was using her for his own purposes.
I can’t believe that Rider is the one who kidnapped Iri, but maybe he did. For starters, it wasn’t evening yet, so I think he was still regenerating. Further to that, it just doesn’t seem to be his style as an honorable warrior. I don’t now what’s going on, but I guess I’ll find out soon enough.
That being said, I liked how Waver had figured out that Rider was using his own power rather than Waver’s and had decided to help Rider heal by eating up, then sleeping in a sleeping bag at the spot where Rider was summoned so that Rider could recover more rapidly. Their conversation was a good one and showed the respect that the two had for each other.
Kariya getting a worm that had feasted on Sakura marks another failure on his part, since he’d not been able to protect the young girl and now gains some sort of power thanks to the abuse she’s taken. I knew that Sakura was an abused girl, but moments like these just bring it home and fill me with rage. I don’t remember the old man (Zouken) being in Fate/stay night, so hopefully, I’ll get to see his demise. However, I have this nagging feeling that I won’t get my wish and that he was in Fate/stay night, just that I don’t remember him. *_*
Had events not unfolded so that Kiritsugu became distracted in a desperate attempt to save his wife, I think he might have put two and two together and determined who killed Tokiomi and Archer’s transference to Kirei.
As to Iri, I’m saddened in knowing that she will not only die, but her daughter will be caught up in the next Grail fight. When one knows the future, seeing Iri’s wish for her daughter and her husband will not be granted is tragic indeed.
In the end, we have an episode that moves the plot forward, but also provides some nice character moments, which for me are making this series more enjoyable.
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It wasn’t much, but I liked getting a bit of history of Maiya’s life.
What was left out is the fact that Maiya had a son, who might still be alive. She was raped by soldiers numerous times and later gave birth to a child. She and Iri have a few things in common, as they are both mothers who left their child and willingly sacrifice themselves for their love Kiritsugu.
However, as a contrast Maiya was a human who acted as a puppet and machine, while Iri as a puppet obtained human emotions and became human, though similar to Shirou she only borrowed Kiritsugu’s ideals and didn’t understand them.
I don’t remember the old man (Zouken) being in Fate/stay night, so hopefully, I’ll get to see his demise. However, I have this nagging feeling that I won’t get my wish and that he was in Fate/stay night, just that I don’t remember him. *_*
Zouken only appears in Sakura’s route Heaven’s Feel. He isn’t even mentioned in Fate or Unlimited Blade Works. As I’ve said before, those who played all three routes(especially Heaven’s Feel) will understand Fate/Zero the best.
Had events not unfolded so that Kiritsugu became distracted in a desperate attempt to save his wife, I think he might have put two and two together and determined who killed Tokiomi and Archer’s transference to Kirei.
He actually already put one and one together and guessed that Kirei killed Tokiomi. The half-drunk tea cups and the blood indicate that a friend came over; that Tokiomi must have let his guard down and was attacked because no intelligent mage would leave his blood on the floor unless he used magecraft.
However, then this wouldn’t make sense because Archer must have been by Tokiomi’s side, unless that person knew Archer and obtained new Command Spells, so the only one who could have done that was Kirei.
You guys do not know how to be subtle. =P I purportedly avoided reveling Zouken was in F/SN so to avoid spoilers.
Anyway, he actually can be mentioned, if briefly in the other routes. If you chose to escort Sakura home in the one of the first 3 days (don’t remember which), Shirou will notice a shadow in the widow or something of that effect.
Also, in UBW, a Shinji interlude mention the worms, I believe. It is not clear if you have not the knowledge, but Zouken was clearly there in the other two routes.
With not “mentioned” I mean he was clearly not shown(his sprite) or someone was calling his name. At the least he didn’t play a significant active role as only Shinji truly acted in both routes in the war(and I’ll stop the discussion here before we are really going to spoil other people).
Also, it’s not really a spoiler, considering the fact that Sakura is tortured by worms, that she is actually Rin’s true sister and that she is a magus. This is the way bigger spoiler.
Saying that Zouken will not appear in the FSN anime isn’t really unsubtle, considering ANB watched the FSN anime already and saw the very first episode of FZ. Those who haven’t seen HF have already spoiled themselves a lot. Zouken’s appearance in FSN was a given, we know the outcome of the war. I know how to be subtle. 😉
Sakura being Rin’s sister and had been tortured is certainly a ‘bigger’ spoiler. But that doesn’t mean the knowledge Zouken lives to se F/SN is not a spoiler by itself either. Now Astronerdboy (and anyone reading the comments) knows the bastard is going to survive this war.
When I said Zouken had not appeared in the anime I was just saying the truth. So ANB doesn’t need to go check by himself or something. Zouken didn’t appeared in the anime and that is just a fact. It is not a spoiler ’cause ANB already watched the anime himself.
And, no, Zouken appearance in F/SN is not a given. Many important characters of F/Z did not appear there, after all (even one who happened to live the whole ordeal).
It is a given. You only need to put one and one together. It is impossible for Shinji to do magic. According to Shirou, Shinji and Sakura, Shinji and Sakura are living alone, meaning neither Byakuya nor Kariya are alive(and no, that is not a spoiler, I think everyone knew Kariya will die).
If Zouken does not survive the war, it is impossible in the 5th war that a) Shinji is in the 5th war and b) Sakura still lives in the Matou house. No one but Tokiomi knew the true reason why Sakura was given away and now he’s dead. The only solution for this is that Zouken still survives Fate/Zero. Unless you give me a more reasonable explanation. 🙂
It doesn’t matter what you think what it is obvious or logical. Saying what will happen next is a spoiler. Major or minor, a spoiler is a spoiler.
Furthermore, you logic is flawed. You forget Shinji has a father. And that his family has books. Ryuunosuke is a shitty magus who learned all he need to be in the war from an old grimore of his ancestors. Shinji has access to these as well.
But more importantly, you forget Sakura is supposedly not a magus in F/SN, which can be seen as an indication Zouken is no more and even that Kariya survived.
You forget Shinji has a father.
Have I? I think I mentioned Byakuya. He doesn’t care about family business and he can’t use magic properly because of insufficient Circuits. Byakuya is a broken drunkard and Zouken’s puppet.
And that his family has books. […] Shinji has access to these as well.
And he has no Magic Circuits. Period. Without Magic Circuits you can’t do shit, so it’s impossible for him to use any magecraft. Where is my logic flawed? You can have as many magic books as you want, if you lack Circuits your knowledge is useless. The book of the false attendant is a book any normal human could use, but Shinji never could have made it.
You still haven’t explained why exactly Sakura shouldn’t have returned back to her family. Even more if Kariya were alive. Byakuya doesn’t care about anything anymore. Shinji doesn’t want her in his house and Sakura doesn’t want to stay, either.
SPOILER WARNING HEAVEN’S FEEL
But more importantly, you forget Sakura is supposedly not a magus in F/SN, which can be seen as an indication Zouken is no more and even that Kariya survived.
Again, Shinji could not summon and use Rider normally because he lacks Circuits compared to Uryu, unless someone summoned Rider and gave her to Shinji. If Zouken were dead and Kariya alive Sakura would have returned back to her family.
It doesn’t matter what you think what it is obvious or logical. Saying what will happen next is a spoiler. Major or minor, a spoiler is a spoiler.
And you were the only one who really gave a shit about that. Fine, if you think it’s a spoiler then do as you please, but stop fussing around this. You think I was unsubtle, I think I wasn’t. Our positions won’t change and I stop this argument here.
It doesn’t matter if Byakuya is useless or not. He has some knowledge of magic, if I remember well, and he can teach these to Shinji.
Shinji doesn’t have Magic Circuit, yeah, whatever. This connection may not be immediately obvious to someone who only watched the anime (remember Shinji is seem using magic of sorts in F/SN).
I don’t explain why Sakura is not back to her family nor do I need to. You are missing my point. It doesn’t matter if I “can” come with a plausible scenario. It is only a matter of “if” someone “may” do so. For someone who only watched the anime, Zouken is a new character. Even if his fate may be inferred, unless it is clearly shown on screen at some point, telling what is his fate is spoiler.
Reply to the Spoilers:
Shinji summoned Rider by himself. This is what he says in F/SN and is what the viewer assumes to be the truth. One may or may not notice this shouldn’t be possible. But it is for them to draw their conclusions. Not for you to assume which conclusion it is.
You can not know if I am the “only one” to give a shit about it. Astronerdboy himself have not said a thing about that matter. Furthermore, most of the blog viewers do not comment. It is just basic courtesy to avoid spoilers where you know newbies are reading (and ANB is a newbie for VN purposes).
Anyway, all I made was a joking comment (didn’t you notice the emocotion?). I didn’t meant to chastise you or anything. Heck, I gave a shameless spoiler as well (giving away Ilya’s fate, which is just reveled in Haven’s Feel, I believe). I just don’t pretend it wasn’t a spoiler, as you seem to.
Anyway, all I made was a joking comment (didn’t you notice the emocotion?).
I saw it. And I answered with an emoticon at the end of my answer. It seems like neither of us got the point of the other one. o_O
I didn’t meant to chastise you or anything. I just don’t pretend it wasn’t a spoiler, as you seem to.
Emoticon or not, it sounded like that. And I wasn’t pretending not to call it a spoiler, that is a discussion I didn’t even want to take part of and I might have drifted off or phrased what I was trying to say wrongly. What I tried to say was that it wasn’t a big deal and I felt offended because your comment sounded like I have no tact. As I believe you didn’t intend to do that, we should stop here, now that the misunderstandings have been cleared up.
It doesn’t matter if Byakuya is useless or not. He has some knowledge of magic, if I remember well, and he can teach these to Shinji.
I don’t quite see the meaning of doing this. Why should Byakuya teach Shinji anything if Byakuya doesn’t care about magic or the family anymore and Shinji is incapable of using his knowledge? The fact that the Matou lineage died with Shinji’s generation(if the viewer trusts Rin, see below) immediately eliminates the possibilities of Shinji getting proper magic education(unless selftaught by using the library) because it’s wasted effort.
Shinji doesn’t have Magic Circuit, yeah, whatever. This connection may not be immediately obvious to someone who only watched the anime (remember Shinji is seem using magic of sorts in F/SN).
I believe Rin made it quite clear when Shirou told her about Shinji. She also remarked that she never sensed any activity of mana (aka Circuits filtering the mana in the atmosphere) from Shinji, unlike in Shirou’s case.
Shinji summoned Rider by himself. This is what he says in F/SN and is what the viewer assumes to be the truth. One may or may not notice this shouldn’t be possible. But it is for them to draw their conclusions. Not for you to assume which conclusion it is.
See above, Rin said that’s impossible because the Matou bloodline has died out(though Shirou objected, since Rider is clearly existing). Unfortunately I don’t remember it right now, but I think Rin said something like “However, could it be that…” leaving the viewer alone with a confusing sounding thought of hers.
The viewer has to decide who is telling the truth, including Shinji being Matou’s heir, that Sakura doesn’t know anything about the Matou’s lineage and that she is uninvolved. Though I admit, that the normal viewer wouldn’t immediately think about the contradictions or the possibility of someone else summoning Rider.
First, thanks for the information. I know that folks keep telling me to do the visual novel, and I did score it (I hope I still have it after changing PC’s a couple of times). Finding time to do it is another thing entirely. ^_^;
As to the spoiler issue, during the F/SN series, I had folks provide a great deal of information. As such, there are no ruining spoilers here for me, but I can see how someone who might want to learn things on their own could get spoiled.
I do like reading the stuff you guys provide. Its like when I was first a Tenchi fan and had folks explaining all sorts of things to me. So I appreciate those who have the knowledge.
About Zouken, I can confirm he doesn’t appear at all in the Fate/stay night anime.
As for Ilya. It is worse than “only” getting caught in the next war. The anime did not made clear (and the VN was quite vague about it as well), but she dies a couple of years after the end of F/SN. Her homunculus body just can’t support itself much past the war, even if she survives, by chance.
That sucks about Ilya. I figured that when the war was over, she was free and clear then. 🙁
I think Zouken is in the last route in FSN. And I don’t think he was featured (maybe he wasn’t even mentioned) in the first two anime (the series and the movie Unlimited Bladeworks). I don’t know about the Visual Novel though.
As for Rider kidnapping Iri: Rider told Waver that he wants to shake up Saber from her illusions about ruling, so maybe that’s why he did it. Also, he is brilliant strategist and tactician (at least that’s what the history books tell us), so he might have a plan in defeating Saber. We’ll wait and see in the next episode (or few episodes?).
You may be right, but it just seems an odd tactic for Rider to take. Plus, the feeling I got was that Rider wouldn’t be healed until night.
Well, I’m about to watch the next episode, so I guess I’ll learn more in a few.
Well, not to spoil anything, but you’ll learn what and why it happened in the next episode.
Just to say that the chase was “WTF!?” for me.
Yeah, it was from left field for sure.