Fate/Zero – 17

フェイト/ゼロ Episode 17
Fate/Zero – 17

SPOILER Summary/Synopsis:

Fate/Zero - 17Kirei arrives at the church to find his murdered father, which he then reports of in person to Tohsaka and Archer. Tohsaka is angry by this, and after paying a visit to his wife and daughter, requests a meeting with Iri and Saber via Maiya. Iri, having recovered from her bout of unconsciousness, agrees and meets Tohsaka, Kirei, and Archer at the church, backed by Maiya and Saber. Iri refuses Tohsaka’s request for an alliance, but does offer a cease fire to eliminate the other Master/Servants, providing that Tohsaka give all information regarding Rider and his Master, and that Kirei is thrown out of the Holy Grail War. Tohsaka agrees to these conditions. Saber leaves on her new motorcycle from Emiya while Maiya take the weakened Iri home, where Iri reveals the truth of her condition to Maiya.

Fate/Zero - 17Kirei is packing up when Archer pays him a visit. Since it is clear that Kirei is not planning to actually leave the war after taking a call where he learns the Einzbern hideout, Archer says that Kirei now finds himself facing an enemy Servant. Kirei isn’t worried, showing the Command Spells he obtained from his father, and explains the true nature of the Holy Grail war to Archer, including the fact that Archer would be forced to kill himself via Tohsaka’s Command Spell should Tohsaka win. The news leaves Archer with no doubt about Tohsaka, but he’s reluctant to kill his supplier of energy. As such, the two come to an agreement that Kirei will become Archer’s Master when Tohsaka is dead since Kirei is a Master without a Servant.

Fate/Zero - 17Tohsaka summons Kirei for one final meeting and leaves him his will, just in case. As such, Kirei agrees to become Rin’s legal guardian and instructor in magic, should Tohsaka fall. Tohsaka gives Kirei the dagger Azoth as a symbol of Kirei’s graduation from mage apprentice to full mage. Having done this, Tohsaka rises to leave and apologizes for delaying Kirei, who is supposed to be flying out. Instead, Kirei follows Tohsaka and stabs him with the dagger, murdering his former master.  Archer appears, and as agreed, becomes Kirei’s Servant as long as Kirei is interesting. The ritual over, Kirei wants to put an end to this war.


It really is sad knowing that Iri is a goner and that Avalon is all that’s kept her together. I really like her character, which is a combination of childhood innocence and delight, as well as the maturity of a mother and loving, devoted wife.

Fate/Zero - 17

It is interesting how she opened up to Maiya rather than Saber regarding her condition. I suppose that’s because Maiya is all business, whereas Saber would not accept this outcome of Iri becoming the Grail.

Fate/Zero - 17

Although Tohsaka has been an arrogant arse, he did show that he still cared for his wife and daughter by paying them a visit. His parting gift and words to Rin were done in a way that suggests he knew he wouldn’t win the war.  That was also true with his words to Kirei.  Unfortunately, this smacks of convenient writing for those of us somewhat aware of the Fate/stay night story.  Had Fate/Zero come first, it would have more meaning. Knowing what’s to come, it feels a tiny bit forced.

Fate/Zero - 17

Speaking of Fate/stay night, I actually laughed a bit when I saw the Azoth dagger presented to Kirei. I remember full well that it was this dagger, in the hands of a teenaged Rin, that kills Kirei. As an aside, I wonder why Kirei kept his promise to teach Rin magecraft and be her guardian.

Fate/Zero - 17

Also, the setup for Gilgamesh-Archer and Kirei to be in Fate/stay night is complete.  When you think about it, the original visual novel really did have a lot of nifty ideas.  No wonder the franchise is such a hot one, even without the hentai elements.

Fate/Zero - 17

Thus, another interesting, though tragic episode comes to an end. I’m looking forward to seeing how things get to the ultimate conclusion.

Fate/Zero - 17
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31 Responses to “Fate/Zero – 17”

  1. Anonymous says:

    I believe you mean a teenaged Shirou used the Azoth dagger to kill Kirei.

  2. Anonymous says:

    C’mon, look at Rin. Who *wouldn’t* want to become her guardian?

  3. Random_Passerby_Number_612 says:

    Kirei takes his promises seriously. Although in this particular case, I think he had a bit of irony in mind in that Rin would be raised by the man who had killed her father.

    About Tokiomi: whether he would win or lose the War, it would still be his last meeting with Rin. Or almost anyone in this plane of existence. Reaching the Root is pretty much Enlightenment so he would have to leave this world behind.

  4. Farray says:

    Hmph… I don’t know what to say about this episode. Frankly speaking, it’s just a disappointment overall for me. The reason for that are the cuts again(I believe they’ll fix the artwork like in episode 11). Or maybe I can only say that because I’ve read the novel, but just when I praised Kirei’s development last week, now I have to say that it’s rushed.

    I know it’s because the original work is a novel, but it was handled a lot more subtle in the novel. In this episode, scenes were merged and transitions were left out or changed. And imo not in a positive way.

    For instance, Kirei cried when he found his father’s corpse. Imo a very important scene, all the more because it’s similar to his wife’s death. He seemed to cry and was sad… because he couldn’t kill him/her himself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF3b4WWMLvg&t=4m30s)

    Now Tokiomi’s parting words:
    This is probably Tokiomi’s only sympathetic scene we’ll get and… god, they cut it. Two important things are missing.

    One, his words to leave Rin’s decisions from now on up to her(after she has kept the Mage’s Association in her debt) have to be linked with a flashback Tokiomi had a moment before. She should choose whether she wants to become a magus and then become a magus from conviction – a lesson Tokiomi’s father taught him before he became the new family head. Rin resembles Tokiomi a bit in FSN, as she is very ambitious, stubborn and proud (and a goof). However, unlike her father, she just wants to win, she doesn’t want to reach Akasha. And she acts way more… human. It’s a bit like Waver imo.

    Two, why he gave Sakura away. I think it’s not surprising for those who played Heaven’s Feel, but he elaborated in his mind Rin and Sakura’s power. Out of the five elements fire, earth, water, wind and void(ether), one can normally only manipulate one element, in rare cases two like Kayneth(wind/water) or Kiritsugu(fire/earth).
    Rin’s element is Five Elements, meaning she can manipulate any element, while Sakura was born with neither of the 5 elements, but another rare trait called Imaginary Numbers(Shadow), which is also her sorcery trait. Only one(for whatever reason) can be protected by the Tohsaka family(“divine protection”) as the inheritor, so in his opinion it was inevitable for the other child to be given away. So why would both of them need protection? Well, magi are knowledge obsessed monsters and the Mage’s Association can give subjects so-called Sealing Designations(pay close attention next episode in Kiritsugu’s flashback). In that case, they(the MA) will send their Enforcers to retrieve the subject, incarcerate it and for example put it in formaldehyde to “protect the trait” and the victim family would be helpless. To prevent such a kidnapping by the MA or researching magi, he searched for a family who would take one of his children as their heir. Tokiomi was saddened to see that unlike him neither of the two had any other choice but to learn magic to protect themselves.

    However, the irony of all that crap is that he gave Sakura to the wrong family and she was abused anyway. Furthermore, he was so naive to believe they would treat Sakura well(he and the Tohsaka clan lack knowledge of how exactly Matou magecraft works, and more important, what a person Zouken is behind his facade) and he stupidly agreed to the condition that any contact between Matou and Tohsaka would be cut, so he never checked again Sakura’s condition, instead firmly believing that Sakura will be doing well.

    Unfortunately, he trusted Kirei as much as he trusted Risei and his horrible judge of characters and his naivety decided his death.

    • Random_Passerby_Number_612 says:

      The MA would NOT send out Enforcers in this case. Sealing is only applied to magi who achieve unique results in their research. No one would be designated simply for having a rare potential. Sakura could be kidnapped by another family, though, and with a high possibility at that.

    • Farray says:

      This is not true. Tokiomi is outright thinking about this. The very definition of “putting her in formaldehyde” is a designation to be sealed. Shirou is another potential target to be sealed because of his unique origin and sorcery trait, if we can believe Rin.

    • AstroNerdBoy says:

      BTW, thanks for the lengthy remarks. I meant to mention this earlier, but neglected somehow. ^_^;;;

  5. Farray says:

    Btw, Rin gave the Azoth dagger to Shirou, he was the one who killed Kirei with it. Kirei merely gave the dagger to Rin out of amusement and she would later give it to Shirou.

    Kirei probably kept his promise because

    a) it would be fun(yes, he finally understands what makes fun for him, he was trolling Rin for the last ten years)
    b) he is taking responsibility. Overall, both him and his father were very dutiful men.

    Oh, and for your information: One only needs 7 dead Servants(although Gil is probably worth 3 or 4 “normal” heroic spirits)to reach Akasha. 6 Servants are enough to fulfill a wish that is inside the world. The actual purpose of this war is only to achieve the Third True Magic Heaven’s Feel, the True Magic the Einzberns lost 1000 years ago. Reaching Akasha was only an offer they made to get Matou and Tohsaka’s support.

    Even if Tokiomi had won, according to Touko from Kara no Kyoukai, those who reached Akasha never came back, so either way he would have been gone, but it’s correct that he came to Rin because he was prepared to die… in a battle, not by the hands of his trusted friend…

    • evgenidb says:

      Akasha? What is that?

      Also, I have a question about Assassin: since the only spirit that is summoned as Assassin is Hassan (in FSN, that samurai wasn’t the real Assassin as far as I know), why the other Masters don’t know more about him (for example, that he have multiple instances of himself)?

      P.S. I watched all three “Einzbern Consultation Room Special” – very educational. I recommend them, ANB!

    • Random_Passerby_Number_612 says:

      Gil is the most powerful Servant, and he would have won the whole war back in episode 5 if he got serious. But that is beside the point. While his conceptual strength and abilities are far above any other Servant, his “nutritional value” for the Grail is not. So he is not worth 3 or 4 Servants in that respect, only in terms of power levels.

    • Son Gohan says:

      Akasha is the Root of All Things, the beginning and the end of everything. He who reaches Akasha becomes an All-Knowing being, basically a god.

      As for Hassan, they don’t know his exact ability because each of the 19 Hashashins has a different Noble Phantasm, although it is always called Zabaniya. For instance, the NP of True Assassin from F/SN (Heaven’s Feel route) allowed him to crush the heart of his opponent from a distance.

    • evgenidb says:

      So, only in this case,Assassin had many different instances of himself, while the other times he was just one man, but had a real Phantasm. Am I getting it right or I’m wrong?

      And why only 19 Hassans? I thought they were many more than that.

    • Farray says:



      It’s outright stated in the visual novel.
      I don’t know which day anymore, but Ilya is praising Sakura in HF for already having absorbed enough energy, even though Rider and Assassin were still alive.

      “Saber, Lancer, Caster, Berserker. It would’ve been fine with just these four. Where did you consume such a soul, Sakura? I’m surprised it’s already sufficient when Assassin and Rider are still left.”

      Note, that Saber(and possibly Berserker, don’t remember that anymore) didn’t count at that time yet because Sakura merely tainted her(or them) and made her(them)into her Servant(s). Gil’s soul really is bigger than the rest.



      Son Gohan pretty much gave you the answer to both questions already. Reaching the Root is a goal any true magus wants to achieve. All Assassins share a collective identity, Zayd is elaborating this a bit in the Einzbern Consultation Rooms. Btw, although the hundred-faced Hassan’s Noble Phantasm is indeed Zabaniya, he never modified any part of his body unlike the other Hassan-i Sabbahs.

    • Farray says:

      Note, that my reply above, evgenidb was directed at your comment on May 1, 2012 10:01 PM. This reply now is a reply to your comment on May 2, 2012 04:07 AM.

      The Assassin in the 4th war is the hundred-faced Hassan. It’s really only one man, but he willingly divided his psyche and developed many personalities. The 100-faced Hassan was able to disguise himself perfectly because of this.

      In this war, Zabaniya is an anti-unit Noble Phantasm, though the target is Assassin himself. 80 personalities could be summoned at the same time, although only together they are as strong as the 100-faced Hassan, that’s why Asssassin is pretty much cannon fodder. However, every entity retains the Presence Concealment skill rank A+, that’s why they were perfect for investigation and spying.

      Hassan-i Sabbah is the pseudonym the 19 leaders of the Hashshashins shared. Why do you think there were more than 19?

    • evgenidb says:

      Now I understand. Thanks Farray!

      I thought that ALL Hassans were fighting, not just one of them, who divided his personality. In 11th episode, we saw lots of Assassins, hence my confusion when Son Gohan said there were only 19 of them.

    • AstroNerdBoy says:

      Thanks for all the great info. ^_^

  6. Lan says:

    another good episode. keep on it with all the deaths. im loving it. lol

    am i sadistic or what?? :p

    • evgenidb says:

      I remember there was someone who said that in the second season “they’ll start dying like flies”. It sure lives to that statement – every episode have a death or two, or three…

    • Lan says:

      I remember that statement too. Turned out to be very true indeed. This series has perked up my interest in maybe reading the novel of FSN.

    • evgenidb says:

      You mean FZ, probably.

      Also, I’m wondering if FZ have a number of different routes just like FSN and if the anime FZ is using one of them or just mixes them all.

    • Lan says:

      I meant FSN. Wait, when does FSN have multiple endings? Oh god dont tell me its just FZ that is baced off a novel, and FSN is based off a game or something. Everyone tells me the anime is crap, and i agree. so what should i do to get to know the true version of FSN? is it a novel, A game?

    • evgenidb says:

      Fate/Stay Night have at least three routes: Fate (I think), Unlimited Blade Works (there is also a movie), and Heaven’s Feel.

      The TV anime is based mostly on Fate route (Shirou, Saber, etc.), Unlimited Blade Works Archer is the hero. Heaven’s Feel – no f-word idea. Maybe Sakura? It was never adapted into anime.

      Those are the routes from the game/interactive novel or whatever it is. I don’t know if it have a light novel or not.

      For instance, Fate/Zero is from a light novel and with the anime adaptation along with manga adaptation.

      Anyway, I checked Wikipedia to write this and it seems that there is only one “route” in FZ: the light-novel one. FSN have multiple “routes” which is normal for a Japanese game (Visual novel). And each “route” explains some things, while contradicts with others (the plot mostly).

    • AstroNerdBoy says:

      Visual novels do that. When I wrote my Fate/stay night reviews, in the comments, there are extensive remarks from knowledgeable person(s) about the different routes.

      Although I avoid it as much as possible due to spoilers, there is a Type-Moon Wikia site which has all of the series Type-Moon has done. It looks like there’s TONS of information there, hence why I won’t go over for now, though I have been there looking for names.

  7. evgenidb says:

    Ow, ANB, when you start watching the BDs for FZ, say a word, so I can start watching them as well.

  8. Thess says:

    “Speaking of Fate/stay night, I actually laughed a bit when I saw the Azoth dagger presented to Kirei. I remember full well that it was this dagger, in the hands of a teenaged Rin, that kills Kirei. As an aside, I wonder why Kirei kept his promise to teach Rin magecraft and be her guardian.”

    You mean Shirou. He also kills Saber with it in HF.

    • Farray says:

      First comment, dude. You’re a bit too late. 😉

      And I believe anime-only viewers didn’t want to know too many details about HF. Oh well, not that it matters anyway.

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