May 31st, 2015 
AstroNerdBoy Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works – 21 review
フェイト/ステイナイト [Unlimited Blade Works] – 21
SPOILER Summary/Synopsis:
Shiro and Archer continue to battle as Saber considers her own actions of the past that lead her to where she is now. Shiro defeats Archer due to Archer becoming sentimental after recalling his promise as Shiro to Kiritsugu to take on the role of Hero of Justice. As Rin arrives to where Archer, Shirou, and Saber are outside of UBW, Gilgamesh attacks the “fake” Archer, hitting him with three blades. Saber is stunned to see Gilgamesh, the Archer from the previous Holy Grail War who should not be alive. Gilgamesh explains that the Holy Grail’s contents that spilled after Saber destroyed it, which caused the fire that nearly took young Shirou’s life, transformed him into human form and gave him insight on the Grail’s purpose.
As he talks, Rin suddenly understands that the Grail could never be used by Servants, only Masters as mages. Saber is shocked to hear this, as Gilgamesh continues to explain that he has no desire for the Grail itself, which has become corrupted, but in what it can do. He intends to use it as a weapon and purge humanity. Anyone who survives the pure will then be worthy of being ruled by Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh readies another attack, but Archer takes the hit, pushing Shirou aside, and telling him he has to defeat Archer. Archer gone, Gilgamesh readies another attack, but the soot from the fires in the castle make him decide to call it a day. Outside, he meets the angry and injured Shinji. Upon learning Kirei is dead and receiving an insult from Shinji, Gilgamesh stuffs Ilya’s Grail heart into Shinji to force him to become the Grail vessel.
Thoughts/Review:
Ugh. At the end there, that was so nasty. For a moment, I thought I was watching Akira. 😉 However, unlike the emotion I felt when Gilgamesh killed Ilya, I couldn’t really feel sorry for Shinji. I would say, “Well, maybe Saber can kill him quick,” but it is already too late for that.
Despite the fact that I am looking forward to Gilgamesh getting his comeuppance, I gotta say that his smugness in this episode kept making me chuckle. He pushed all of their buttons, then ended it by leaving because he was getting soot on them, telling them, “This means your lives are worth less to me than soot.” 😆
I have to say that I liked Saber’s reaction to seeing Gilgamesh and the fact that she addressed him as Archer. There was no reaction from Rin and Shirou on this. Back when they first learned of the 8th Servant, I would have thought that Rin would have made a bigger deal of this than she did. Then when it is revealed that Gilgamesh is a Servant from the previous war, still no reaction other than, “here’s another enemy we have to fight.”
Gilgamesh pretty much stole the show here. I presume that when Archer took everyone into UBW, Gilgamesh was there somehow. I’m not sure how that is since I don’t think Gilgamesh can become invisible.
Why does Archer think that Shiro can defeat Gilgamesh? It has to be something related to Gilgamesh having that massive treasure room of weapons, and Shiro’s ability to replicate weapons. I can’t figure out how Shiro is supposed to defeat Gilgamesh, not that he has the mana at the moment to do so…not yet at least.
We’ll see how many folks know that old school reference. 😉
Regardless, in the Fate route, Saber was in desperate need of a mana refill, and because the source Fate/stay night material is a hentai visual novel (pretty mild by today’s standards, from what I’m told), Shirou having sex with Saber was a way to recharge her, thus giving a plot reason (even if laughable) for Shirou to boink Saber and give her the protein she so desperately needs. 😉
Having seen a lot of Fate/stay night images, including some hentai ones (I don’t think there are a lot of those), I know Shiro has sex with Rin. Based on the preview section at the end of this episode, I’m guessing that next episode is where Shiro and Rin will knock the boots. It appears that the justification will be so that Rin can charge Shiro’s mana banks. Of course, I’m not sure how Shiro shooting a load into Rin causes him to juice up, but that’s part of the glorious world of hentai logic. If your are bored, you can read the 2009 piece I rescued from the old Usenet. 😉
OK, that out of the way, I will now address Shiro’s and Archer’s overshadowed fight. (Darn Gilgamesh.) I liked that it ended because Archer recalled being a young Shiro and promising that he’d become the Hero of Justice that Kiritsugu could not. Shiro kept that promise, but became Archer in the process. So in the end, Archer concedes, and true to form, is actually a Hero of Justice until the end.
Of more interest was Saber’s reaction to this. My memory may be playing tricks with me, but it seems like Saber is getting a better resolution here in coming to terms with her past than she did in the Fate route, which was her route. Either way, I loved it.
Well, I’m sure there’s more I could say, but I’m already WAY behind thanks to having my workload doubled (my colleague got laid off), my being sick the whole weekend, and the hours I wasn’t in bed being in front of the screen playing Fallout: New Vegas for the first time. So I’ll end things here by saying that this was a great episode, even if it did get a bit nasty at the end.
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!! Short interruption !!
ANOTHER Genshiken chapter just released. You are two chapters behind now. Better catch up with that.
Somewhat on topic: I watched Fate/Zero over the weekend and it was seriously awesome. Iskandar/Alexander-Rider is best Rider!
Yep, Lancelot was best berserker too, tho ufotable made Hercules look strong for once and awesome.
I got one, still have one to go. ^_^;;;
For me, I personally feel that Gil calling Archer a Fake is due to him being a literal fake hero.
He has no Noble Phantasm of his own, his own weapons are a fake imitation of the real thing and even his ambitions were borrowed and not his own.
Also due to the natural usage of Unlimited Blade Works, summoning Swords, Firing said Sword and being an owner of a mass of weapons… Archer is in many ways a fake copy of Gilgamesh in some sense…
If I were Gilgamesh I would find insult in the way that Archer has copied and holds a mass of fake weapons and can deploy them in similar methods to himself.
[spoiler]Fate Kaleid 3Rei Kid Gil possesses a Noble Phantasm known as ‘The Invisible Hat of Hades’ that allows people to hide themselves like Harry Potter’s Invisibility Cloak.[/spoiler]
Potentially the UBW can function similarly to the Gate of Babylon…
Both has the capacity to store weapons, both have the capacity to fire weapons as projectiles and since Archer is a version of Shirou who supposedly won the holy grail war, I assume at some point he also had to face Gilgamesh and chances are… most of Emiya’s Noble Phantasms are a direct copies of Gilgamesh’s own weapons.
I thought… in the movie at least… they made it so that Rin just establish a connection with Shirou (like Servant and Master) and created a link where she can provide him with the Mana to use his own ‘Noble Phantasm’.
To quote one of the greats – “Oh, my“.
That’s a different spin on “Noble Phantasm” than I had ever expected. (^_~)
More seriously, at the risk of over-rationalizing and/or being excessively juvenile… I could actually buy it if they strung together some technomagicalbabble about how having simultaneous Noble Phantasms allows magic circuits to harmonize and blah blah blah.
I never saw the movie, so I don’t know what happened there. I am just aware of a few H images from the original Fate/stay night visual novel.
Sorry I didn’t write more in response. I’m SOOO far behind. 🙁 Thanks as always for writing though.
Well, this episode was a bit disappointing for me, after I liked last episode so much. I kinda wonder why this episode was named answer and not last episode. Especially because the second half of the episode is more about true identity of the Grail and Gilgamesh. But, oh well.
I honestly have to say, the climax of Archer and Shirou’s fight wasn’t very intense for me. Perhaps it sounds hypocritical for me to say that, but the monologues here hurt the tension of the fight. Or at least if they do monologues, they shouldn’t just stand around for a minute or so.
Shirou keeps attacking Archer, even though his bones are broken and most of his injuries are still there (Avalon only healed him a bit in the novel, and heals the flesh wounds first, not the bones). Instead of making use of all the knowledge he had absorbed from Archer, he abandons all his techniques, but to Archer it feels like Shirou’s attacks now have unbelievable speed and infinite power. Archer decides to take Shirou very seriously now and wants end it quickly. He decides to crush Shirou’s skull, but Shirou easily blocks them. The “final blows” keep coming, yet Shirou is still alive and this utterly confuses Archer. Archer can’t fight someone he can’t comprehend because he’s so contradictory to himself.
http://i.imgur.com/gZC9g2E.jpg
Regarding fight choreography, DEEN comes closer to how I imagined it. They should have just let Shirou and Archer keep clashing swords, instead we get UBW sword rains, which kind of get on my nerves, because it again looks like projections and I was never a fan of giant ass swords, because in my opinion they just look stupid (http://i.imgur.com/t7DramF.jpg). Well, I guess other people found it cool.
Anyway, here’s what I liked about that scene:
Archer’s monologue while just standing around may look bad in my eyes, but the idea behind it is good. Don’t get me wrong, it’s good that ufotable wishes to deliver the message and show the difference between the goal-oriented Archer and the process-oriented Shirou, unlike DEEN. I just didn’t like the execution of it, because the fight seems sooo slow. It was too much telling and not showing basically. It’s nice to see though what Shirou makes Archer remember and I’m sure I was not the only one that noticed the EXTRA CCC reference.
CCC: http://i.imgur.com/MEEqpt3.jpg
ufo: http://i.imgur.com/Thncmpg.jpg
Archer essentially finding a satisfying answer is also very important, as some people thought that would have saved Kiritsugu, too. It would have not helped Kiritsugu. Archer and Kiritsugu are not the same. Their idea of a superhero is different, even if Shirou picked up that idea from Kiritsugu.
The flaw that Fate/Zero points out for Kiritsugu is that there exists a disconnect between his actions and his ideal, because even if his actions were repeated eternally (as demonstrated by Angra Mainyu) the desired outcome would never be reached. A limited and flawed human like Kiritsugu can’t conceive of a method to create a perfect world.
Shirou perceives a hero to be “someone who saves”, while Kiritsugu believes a hero to be “someone who brings peace”. Those are two vastly different views. The hypocrisy in Shirou’s wish is that for someone to be saved, there needs to be that someone to be in a situation where he/she must be saved. There is fundamentally no perfect world for this kind of view. For Kiritsugu’s perfect world, there would just be peace. He could still exist in this world, as a hero would then just be unremarkable and doesn’t need to bring peace.
Through Archer, Shirou realizes the contradiction in his ideal but affirms that the act of saving is beautiful in itself regardless of result so it’s impossible for him to regret walking the path of a hero. And that is a beautiful conclusion to reach. However, such a conclusion is absolutely meaningless to Kiritsugu. He never doubted that his wish is beautiful or worth fighting for. He just doubted the methods, because his only known method brought him farther away from his ideal world.
Anyway, I am not sure what I should think of the Reality Marble starting to change, when Shirou made his final charge at Archer. A Reality Marble reflects the inner mind of its caster, so the cogwheels stopping and the sky becoming brighter would symbolically mean that Archer is changing. I saw reactions of people who found it too unsubtle and cheesy, while others found it good. I guess I liked it, though I kind of agree that it’s a bit cheesy. Besides, Zero ended with “AND THEN THE SUN APPEARS FOR SABER BECAUSE LEAVE YOUR DREAM TO ME” so they are only following up on that level of cheesiness. 😀
What I really liked though was the music, as Emiya again kicks in and how the song gets slower and then quieter, when Archer remembers his promise to Kiritsugu. What I also found good was that they clearly showed Archer’s hesitation and eventual decision to not kill Shirou. Saber just asking “Archer, why?” is missing, but I think everyone understands that Archer gave up the physical fight, when he lost the mental fight against Shirou. Archer seemed more injured in the novel than in the anime. On the other hand, Shirou looked more injured in the anime. The hanging arm was a nice addition. Shirou actually going down, while Archer in comparison looked fine again showed that Shirou’s final attack did not do much to Archer, physically.
VN: http://i.imgur.com/SGGtc0R.jpg
ufo: http://i.imgur.com/H0hKzA4.jpg
Archer is back to his old self after Shirou defeated him and you can also hear it in the way he speaks, as he stops using “ore” and starts using “watashi” again.
Huh, I actually didn’t like it. It’s another anime addition that I feel didn’t work out as well as they probably hoped. Or maybe I should phrase that differently…. I like Saber getting developed, I just think her monologue narrating the fight was unnecessary and her thinking about her own wish was absolutely misplaced and doesn’t flow well, when the fight is supposed to reach its climax. I understand, Saber needs development, but seriously, they should have done that earlier, when they had the time. It just feels shoved in to me, as they probably realized that they just cannot not develop her, since the Fate route will probably not get a remake.
Anyway, your memory is playing tricks with you. In Fate, Shirou tells her that she did not make a mistake, because she believed in her ideal and tried her best, even if everything at the end went wrong. Therefore there was nothing she should regret or undo. Him rejecting the Grail to change his past, when Kirei offered it to him, makes her realize that she shouldn’t change her past, either. She found her answer, so she left to go to Avalon, in Fate.
It’s the same here, albeit without any romantic interest towards Shirou. Shirou vs Archer represents the conflict she has, which is visually shown by showing the girl Artoria on the one side and King Arthur on the other (http://i.imgur.com/tB0yvmL.jpg). Shirou winning the mental fight and Archer accepting him makes Saber realize that she has to move forward. Now that she knows that the Grail is not what she thought it would be, it’s up to her to decide what she should do now. Whether she found her answer in that fight, like she did in Fate, is left to interpretation.
Btw, the clothes Artoria wore looked like a mix between the clothes she wears in these two pics here:
http://i.imgur.com/5C2VB2R.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0WfqnIX.jpg
So, that’s it for answer. Now about the other chapter, Enemy that must be defeated.
I am not sure, why ufotable changed the part with Gil’s first attack. Archer noticed it first and pushed Shirou away. He saved him again, when Gil’s second attack came (which they have shown). Gil despises Archer and Shirou, because they are only using imitations. Everything about them is a fake.
The scene with Gilgamesh is basically a giant info dump. I’ll list a few notable changes.
-Gil about Saber:
“I was going to go see you (Saber) earlier, but my plans have changed. Unexpected things kept on happening, and things are going against my will.”
-Shirou’s thought when Archer tells him that he should defeat Gil:
[As] long as I defeated Archer and as long as I want to be a superhero, I must defeat him.
-Rin’s attack (jewel, not Gandr) is outright canceled by Gil, not just deflected like in the anime (and shame on you all who thought she can’t aim). Gil shoots weapons at her, which Saber parries. Gil then decides to spare Rin, since he sees that she is Saber’s new Master and killing her would rob him of one of his pleasures.
Btw, Gilgamesh finally uses ‘mongrel’.
Anyway, Saber misunderstands why Gilgamesh is in the modern world. She thought Servants disappear, if the Holy Grail is destroyed, since this is the connection with the world, but Gil explains that one merely needs the mana and an anchor in the world. His Master unfortunately did not have the mana to keep a Servant around, but he mentions that magi make up the lack of circuits with their knowledge, and his Master was exceptional in that regard. It is only natural to take away from others, if one cannot supply oneself.
Of course Gil is talking about the living mana batteries Kirei provided, that Shirou finds in the Fate route. They were the surviving orphans of the fire ten years ago, that were sent to the orphanage of the church. Shirou also noticed in the novel, that Gil is using past tense, so unlike in the anime, Gil is already aware that his Master is dead (Shirou doesn’t understand, since he thought Gil’s Master is Shinji). But like in the anime, Gil explains that he doesn’t need mana to stay in the world, since he gained a real body, when the mud fell on him.
The lines I leave out in Gil’s conversation with Saber are the parts that are mentioned in the anime.
[spoiler title="Long Dialogue"]
But to be honest, I did not need to do such a thing (consuming mana to stay in the world). I am the only Servant that the Holy Grail poured on. I have already completed the incarnation ten years ago.”
Gil also gave the answer to your question about the vessels two episodes ago, in the novel:
“That’s right. There is no need for me to share it with a parasite like my Master. I will use the Holy Grail for my objective.
The biggest obstacle, the summoner, was eliminated. All that’s left are pathetic magi that would be completely unsuited to being the vessel.
Such failures are suited for my wish.
But then… your flesh might make a perfect Holy Grail.”
The man looks at Tohsaka.
“Oh……”
Tohsaka must feel the danger, as she grows pale and steps back.
This is what I mentioned before. Gilgamesh wants a defective Grail. He doesn’t need an omnipotent Grail or seven dead Servants for his goal.
Gil also refers to the reason, that was mentioned in episode 2 or so, why Servants and Masters are supposed to cooperate, and points out the contradiction, that nobody seemed to notice.
(Saber)“Ridiculous. The Holy Grail is what the Master obtains. We Servants cooperate with our Masters because we cannot obtain it ourselves…!”
“That is strange. The Servants are the only ones who can touch the Holy Grail, but Masters are the only ones who can obtain it? …Heh. It’s all ridiculous nonsense.”
[…] (explanation about the Holy Grail Ritual being a farce and the “wish granting” being the bait for outsiders and Heroic Spirits)
“Masters are just circuits to summon us. Magi made the Holy Grail, but they could not prepare its contents. I told you earlier, right? They are ones that take away from others if they cannot supply it themselves.”
[…] (talk about the souls of the Heroic Spirits being sacrifices, as they are purest form of mana etc.; Saber denying in her thoughts that it’s true)
“You should not be surprised. The Holy Grail is a filtration device that turns the soul into pure magical energy. Yes, it should let you grant any wish. It contains more magical energy than a magus could ever use within his lifetime.
That is why it is better with more sacrifices. It should be omnipotent with six Servants as sacrifices. Five Servants have filled the Holy Grail. Only one more is needed for the omnipotent grail they sought.”
“Then… Then only the Masters can handle the Holy Grail. If it is a repository of pure magical energy, only magi can use it. …Yes. If the Master is an excellent magus, it…”
“…It will grant him any wish?
You idiot. Such miracles are not given to mere humans. Humans only destroy themselves, no matter how much power they are given.
But… do not worry, Saber. This Holy Grail is real. If you insert seven Servants in it, it will reach the origin.”
[cue shocked Rin]
“I do not know who it was, but the one who made this rule is a genius.
But it does not concern me. I have no interest in such a thing. All I am interested in is the Holy Grail’s ability to serve as the ‘gate’.”
Honestly, I don’t know, why this explanation is left out. Rin is actually shocked, because the Holy Grail has the power to reach Akasha. It would neatly connect to Fate/Zero, where Kirei explained the true power of the Holy Grail, and the purpose of the Servants, to Gil. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s left out because the Grail’s true purpose isn’t relevant in UBW and they were running out of time.
Anyway…
[…] (Recap what happened ten years ago, Gil learning the Grail’s identity, when he bathed in it and the Grail being a suitable weapon)
“We are weapons to begin with. That thing has only perfected that. The Holy Grail is a gate to hell. 5.6 billion curses will flow out from it once it is opened.
Kotomine did not tell you about it?
The Holy Grail is named ‘Angra Mainyu’, or ‘All the World’s Evil’. It is mud that will consume every human being, like the name states.”
It would have been good if the part with Angra Mainyu had been mentioned in the anime… I’ve seen so many people who took the “gateway to hell” literally. It’s a metaphor.
[…] (Shirou wondering why the Grail is named after the Zoroastrian Devil)
“Then your intention is to…”
“Yes, to sweep the humans away. I have no intention of admiring humanity like Kotomine. I only admire beautiful things.
This world is enjoyable, but it is incorrigible at the same time.
It is an insult to the king for so many wretches to be enjoying life. I do not want to rule over such a world.”
[…] (blabla, Rin pointing out why Gil’s plan is crazy and Gil saying he doesn’t care if everyone dies out)
“I do not know what this ‘All the World’s Evil’ is. But it is convenient. It is a reaper that strikes down all humans equally. An endless darkness that is born from humans and kills them.
See, now I’m pissed they changed that bolded line into “I don’t know what was intended with the Grail” in the anime. Of course he knows. Kirei explained it to him in Fate/Zero, for Christ’s sake, and Gil originally mentions it, too, in UBW in the novel! [/spoiler]
Also, I never really liked how cliché Gil’s behavior was in UBW. “I want to kill everyone, but oh, let me explain everything to you because why not” is pretty lame, if you ask me. His wish is not nearly as interesting and complex as Kirei’s wish. It makes sense, since mankind has deteriorated, compared to the old times, when Gilgamesh ruled as king, and ultimately, one could see that Gil has better intentions for humanity (hence his alignment “Chaotic Good”), but it still is very cliché.
Honestly, I thought it was too on-the-nose and they shouldn’t have added that line in the anime. Just saying “the ashes will dirty my clothes” would have been fine.
Well, there was no point in showing utter confusion. Rin is the kind of person who quickly grasps the situation and accepts reality, as Kirei pointed out right before he tried to kill her. She and Shirou were genuinely surprised there was an eighth Servant, but any dramatic reaction is unnecessary. Rin didn’t react that way in Fate, either, when Gilgamesh suddenly appeared. Ilya was the one that freaked out, but Rin and Shirou stayed calm.
Since UBW didn’t actually happen in the novel, when Archer and Shirou fought, I can only speculate.
a) Either Gilgamesh can see with his eyes or with a Noble Phantasm he owns, what was going on inside the Reality Marble.
b) Or he was dragged into the RM, but stayed hidden (entirely possible that Gil possesses a NP to make himself invisible).
c) Or he only saw the end of the fight.
They slightly changed a few things. Gil learns from Shinji that Kirei is dead and to me it seems like he feels a bit of remorse. This is also an opportunity for me to answer one of arimareiji’s questions from last week.
Lancer was really almost dead in the novel. I don’t like this “you’re too pathetic to be killed” attitude, and I don’t think Lancer intended to do that. Freeing Rin from the ropes was his first priority, but he almost killed Shinji with his final attack. Lancer didn’t just prick Shinji with his lance like in the anime, he almost cut off his arm. The arm is barely attached in the final scene in this episode and Shinji notices how useless it has become, so he dreams of everyone losing both of their arms, and him collecting them, so he can feel superior. Yeah…
Well, I really like Shinji in UBW. This is the route where he is getting fleshed out.
I predict fish. And maybe dolphins. No, you don’t have to understand what that means. 🙂
————————————————————————————————————————————–—-
Additional notes:
1. Episode script cover:
http://i.imgur.com/VxtpNnZ.jpg
Congrats, Shinji, you got the Grail!
2. And now you see the other reason why Gil is called Dr. Gilgamesh! That heart transplant was wonderfully done. Here are some parodies, courtesy of Kotonoha (I think):
http://i.imgur.com/f5cMJQe.png
http://i.imgur.com/iJi3FtY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Tdi4CmW.jpg
3. “Tohsaka wench”. Really, Aniplex? I thought musume means daughter.
4. http://www.fate-sn.com/ichimon/
Submit your questions for the next Q&A with Takeuchi and Nasu! You have one month left. However, if you want any tips…
a) Write in proper Japanese. Occasionally, English questions are answered, too, but at most one or two. You have a higher chance, if you write in Japanese.
b) It’s the Q&A for the second half of UBW. So anything that doesn’t have much to do with FSN and UBW has a smaller chance of getting answered.
c) Don’t ask a question someone else will ask anyway, like how Archer got the mana to do UBW again.
d) Don’t give a possible answer to your question. Nasu will pick that question, only to wave it off and say “Yeah, you’re right. Next!”
5. http://www.fate-sn.jp/
FSN Fate route is now out for Android and for free! Alas, there’s a region lock. And, well, it’s in Japanese, but the members of Beast’s Lair are working on a patch right now.
6. GIFs
[spoiler title="GIFs"]
Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic:
http://i.imgur.com/ktlE8M8.gif
Shirou loop:
http://i.imgur.com/RpjqzH0.gif
Sword dance:
http://i.imgur.com/5JUYWZa.gif
Angry Archer:
http://i.imgur.com/U3M9uuF.gif
King Arthur and Artoria:
http://i.imgur.com/ILtCQnj.gif
First sword rain:
http://i.imgur.com/TLLN4YU.gif
http://i.imgur.com/gDx0CJz.gif
Reality Marble changes?:
http://i.imgur.com/WZhsHKj.gif
Final charge:
http://i.imgur.com/cnwJY9q.gif
http://i.imgur.com/b0gyHmw.gif
http://i.imgur.com/Z0iCz87.gif
Relieved Shirou:
http://i.imgur.com/fyNDwHT.gif
Stabbing backs:
http://i.imgur.com/ptInRfh.gif
“Disappear, trash.”:
http://i.imgur.com/GLJw3FZ.gif
You defeat him:
http://i.imgur.com/1PZ5YYs.gif
Rin is pissed:
http://i.imgur.com/Gxd2593.gif
Truth about the Grail and the Servants:
http://i.imgur.com/URITrbj.gif
http://i.imgur.com/OHe23qw.gif
http://i.imgur.com/LoGEFER.gif
Corrupted Grail:
http://i.imgur.com/Ivro4Vw.gif
Evul smile:
http://i.imgur.com/uvED1b2.gif
Heart transplant:
http://i.imgur.com/BAGGYqK.gif
Blown-up Shinji:
http://i.imgur.com/j9Rz0FQ.gif
http://i.imgur.com/qHG8xEv.gif
http://i.imgur.com/c53LIxA.gif
Gil grins at Shinji:
http://i.imgur.com/L6Aqvu9.gif [/spoiler]
For once, I have a slightly different opinion here. Saber’s monologue didn’t seem misplaced to me, although it did disrupt the flow of the fight between the two.
I don’t know whether or not they actually (forcefully) shoved her development here, but it seems to be the right moment since Archer’s goal and her wish are basically similar in nature. If they develop her more before this fight, there is a chance it would make this adaptation less “Rin’s route” instead.
I’m pretty sure this is a pun.. right?
Well, it’s exactly because it interrupts the flow is why I think it’s misplaced. If they had done her monologue when the fight had ended, I would have liked it more.
Nasu specifically told ufotable when they decided to adapt UBW “Hey guys, this isn’t Saber’s route, so I just want her to look cute and act like a motherly/guardian-like character”, so that was the reason why I accepted that she wouldn’t get any development. Any reactions or interactions with Shirou and Archer, where her wish and story is referenced and foreshadowed, in the novel, even if there were few, were cut out in the first half.
Then in the second half, they decided in the last three/four episodes to add original scenes to characterize her. It doesn’t feel right to me, it should have happened sooner. It’s kind of like with Ilya in UBW, where relevant character info about her is revealed in a flashback in the episode where she gets killed. Far too late (though I know Ilya will get her scenes in HF, so that didn’t bother me).
And… well, UBW isn’t really Rin’s route either, so that shouldn’t have been an issue. It’s only called the Rin route, because she is the love interest, developing Saber earlier wouldn’t have hurt. Heaven’s Feel is more about Rin than UBW. As the name suggests, UBW is a story about Archer (and of course Shirou).
You decide… 😛
i completely agree regarding Illya’s case, so no comment there.
I don’t know about this part, so maybe that’s the reason I don’t really feel it being shoved.
I know, that’s why I put the ” ” mark. What I meant to say is, developing her before this point, e.g. showing Shirou’s sword training, could raise more Saber points, in VN term. Perhaps they’re hinting on which ending they will show, while still develop her enough and give closure to her story to satisfy F/Z watchers, by giving her development in this fight instead of before.
But I’ve got to say, for now, I’m still sticking to my opinion about misplacement. If they put her monologue after the fight, depending on when they shoved it, maybe I would have thought “the moment is lost” instead.
Hmm whilst I can understand your point I have to disagree.
Saber’s scene does fit nicely and for those who remember her valiant speech about what a King should be with Archer (Gil) and Rider (Iskander) then yeah… It a nice continuation and conclusion to Fate Zero.
If anything I feel this series is meant to be a continuation of Fate/Zero and the continuation of Kiritsugu’s dreams and a resolution to Saber’s tragic ending at the end of the forth war.
It isn’t a series where it’s ‘Hey lets forget everything and focus solely on one route.’ This is evident by the huge amount of shout outs to all Nasuverse material.
Fate Route, Fate Extra, Fate Extra CCC, Fate/Zero and Fate Apocrypha have been mentioned, so to me… I feel this UBW adaption is a series is a revamp of the original material with all expanded materials considered.
Of course… there are those like you who will find it distasteful that editions and alterations have been made but in all fairness I like how Saber has a resolution to her wish from Fate/Zero.
She lifted a sword and was burdened with the weight of a nation, she served its people and never allowed others to serve her. Her nation split in two and stood atop the mountain of corpse, she desired to change her past and erase her history. When her chance to obtain the grail was within her grasp, it was then taken away from her.
Now that she has a second chance, she now meets a fellow Hero who had similar circumstances and desire and I feel she understands how hypocritical her question to archer was.
She herself felt that there was no need to change Archer’s history, no matter how terrible it turned out to be and ironically it became a question to herself. Why should she erase her own history? Archer is thinking what’s best for the world, whilst saber think what is best for her nation. In the end the answer became clear.
If you started down a path then see it through to the end and accept the responsibility of what you’ve done.
Yeah but then that becomes a narrow and tasteless plot focus solely on Shirou… whining like a sexist ….. for 30 minutes trying to take on the servant and push Saber aside, like he did in Studio Deen’s FSN series.
I still think Ufotable done a real good job with this series, of course it will be upsetting for hardcore VN fans but still it is none the less a job well done.
What I hated about Fate Stay Night by Studio Deen was that it was so focused on one character it just lacked depth and substance to the story.
Just like Fate Zero, Fate Stay Night Unlimited Blade by Ufotable have given each character a moment to shine and a chance to build on their character and make themselves stand out… Like you get a genuine sense that each of the heroes aren’t fodders waiting to be killed off and that there is a genuine threat to each servant.
Meh this route more or less focus on ‘The Hero of Justice’ even if their concept is different both aimed for the same goal…
Shirou/Archer wish to “Save People” whilst Kiritsugu desired to “bring peace to humanity” and ironically he saved people along the way. In the end what Archer did was no different from what the grail showed Kiritsugu.
Archer just went on killing trying to save humanity but realised humanity cannot be saved so long as they continued fighting and for Kiritsugu, there is no such thing as peace as long as humanity exist. Peace can be given to himself and his family but not for humanity.
Anyways yeah… not sure if I got straight to the point XD… explanation has never been a strength for me.
To me, her thoughts paralleled their fight, so it didn’t bother me.
Reason # 267 to be very careful when you dork with source material: If it’s built on a spider-web of logic that you poorly understand, you’ll quickly build a pile of contradictions that are hard to explain away.
Not sure if serious… but given the preceding context, I think I’ll go with “sarcastic”. (^_~);;;
Thank you; several puzzle pieces fit much better this way. Foremost among them, although it might just be my spin on it: I don’t see Cú Chulainn taking pity and sparing someone who failed to become a rapist only by luck, not for lack of trying.
Noticed that too. I’d have thought “girl” or perhaps “child” would be the gist of it in this context, but that’s just a wild-hair guess since even Aniplex’s English is better than my script-kiddy Japanese. (That says much more about how little I honestly understand Japanese than it says anything positive about Aniplex’s command of English. For a company that’s so choosy about doing their own translation, you’d think they would be better at it.)
I kinda agree with your points more…
Whilst I feel a series should stick to the original source, i think it is also best for the series if it can be improved upon.
The additions and alterations that Ufotable has made to UBW have been positive adjustments.
One may argue the fight in the Studio Deen Movie might be better than the TV Anime series but that is mainly due to the fact that Archer vs Shirou was the Highlight of the movie version.
As long as the quality of the series does not suffer (like Studio Deen making a mess of F/SN series) then then is no real harm done.
As Lancer stated, he felt he was wasting energy on Shinji so a Prick makes more sense than a full on javelin throw. In the end he has no grudge or qualms with Shinji himself.
““Tohsaka wench”. Really, Aniplex? I thought musume means daughter.”
Doesn’t Crunchyroll do the english translate? since most of the rips are coming from Crunchyroll…
Anyways Musume can mean “Little Girl” or “Daughter” though the translated context is trying to make reference to Fate Zero.
Archer (Gilgamesh) was originallly summoned by Tohsaka Tokiyomi and hence Gil is referring Rin as the Daughter of that wrench who he hated.
Aniplex is providing the subs to Crunchyroll…at least, that was my understanding.
Well, those are answers too. 😉
Obviously for me, it was the opposite. I wonder if it is a case of you being so well versed in the original material and me not being versed.
BTW, why isn’t the anime mentioning Angra Mainyu?
And because of this, I put that reference into the next episode’s subtitle. 😀
As always, thanks for the great info.